Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => French Royals => Topic started by: Lolita on July 01, 2007, 10:06:14 AM

Title: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: Lolita on July 01, 2007, 10:06:14 AM
Seriously,I haven't seen ANY portraits/paintings of her?

is there one out there?
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: gogm on July 01, 2007, 01:40:25 PM
From which period?

The name Noailles has been in use for quite some time.
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: Lolita on July 02, 2007, 09:02:21 AM
She was one of the people in the court of Versailles,Marie Antoinette used to call her "madame etiquette"
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: Eddie_uk on July 02, 2007, 12:46:08 PM
The dowager Duchess Francoise de Noailles aka Madame Etiquette who went to the guillotine along with her daughter in law and granddaughter. It's interesting to wonder why she travelled in a different tumbril to that of her daughter in law and granddaughter? One would have thought they would have stuck together.
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: ashdean on July 02, 2007, 01:26:57 PM
Madame Etiquette was not the Dowager Duchess de Noallies who was gullotined with her daughter in law (often known as the Duchesse D'Ayen) and her eldest daughter Louise vicomtesse de Noallies.THAT lady was Catherine  the daughter of the Duc de Brissac and a immense heiress.
madame Etiquette was the wife of the Comte de Noallies later Marchael Duc de Mouchy.  They were arrested with their daughter Philipine Duchesse de Duras but seperated from her and gullotined together a few days before the Dowager (whose late husband was Mouchys elder brother). Not only was Louise their great neice but there daughter in law ( being the wife of their youngers son). Phillippine survived the revolution being imprisoned with the marquise de Lafayette....sister to Louise.Madame Etiquettes 2 sons who had emigrated the Prince de poix and Vicomte de Noallies also survived. The Mouchy family are still going strong & no doubt have family portraits..
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: ashdean on July 02, 2007, 01:31:38 PM
The dowager Duchess Francoise de Noailles aka Madame Etiquette who went to the guillotine along with her daughter in law and granddaughter. It's interesting to wonder why she travelled in a different tumbril to that of her daughter in law and granddaughter? One would have thought they would have stuck together.

Eddie sadly the Duchesse de Noallies a senile,deaf old lady would not in the hands of rough captors have the gumption to protest against her placement in tumbrils..the fact she was #3 in that days batch of victims & her daughter in law was #9 or 10 may have been age or even precedence related but was of no great importance in the miserable,barbaric end.
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: Eddie_uk on July 02, 2007, 02:51:32 PM
Hi ashdean, many thanks for the information! Although it's dreadfully sad I find it very interesting. The Malesherbes family was another that were guillotined together :(
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: ashdean on July 04, 2007, 06:24:37 AM
In Reynolds published in 1986 (ISBN 0297786865)by the Royal Academy of Arts to compliment an exhibition devoted to Sir Joshua...there is on page212 a reproduction of a mezzotint byR Purcell after a portrait by Coypel entitled Mme de Mouchy..the print belongs to the Fitzwilliam in Cambridge who may have more information. The Mouchy family (at least till recently) owned the chateaux de Beoliel near Paris....sadly some of its paintings suffered damage in WW2 but perhaps there is still a likeness of Mme Etiquette there...
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: ashdean on July 04, 2007, 06:39:53 AM
In  Adrienne:Marquise de la Fayette by Andre Maurois(Cape 1961) the Mouchy couple and their daughter are arrested at the chateaux de Mouchy in the Oise region on October 16th 1793 and were eventually imprisoned in the Luxembourg till the Duchesse de Duras was transferred to Chantilly.... The couple were eventually executed on the following June 27th.In prison the Duke formerly hot tempered but not a libertine like his elder brother seems to have found great serenity....In Paris in the Terror by Stanley Loomis (Cape,1965)...the Mouchys last days are also recorded and also the fact that Madame de Mouchy was found to have been arrested with charge !!! this did not bother the revolutionary council who on the same day in the same batch condemned 2 women of the same name..because they could not bother to find out which was the one who had been charged !!!
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: Mari on July 08, 2007, 07:21:01 AM
I found an image of Madame Etiquette's Husband the Duc de Mouchy but I have not found a site for their Chateau. At the time the Duchess died she would have been around 65 by my calculations. I always wonder if their Son Phillipe-Louis left France why did his Mother and other family members not go? I know the Duc de Mouchy was a Military leader and Marshal but the others did they ever try to escape?
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: ashdean on July 08, 2007, 04:01:55 PM
I found an image of Madame Etiquette's Husband the Duc de Mouchy but I have not found a site for their Chateau. At the time the Duchess died she would have been around 65 by my calculations. I always wonder if their Son Phillipe-Louis left France why did his Mother and other family members not go? I know the Duc de Mouchy was a Military leader and Marshal but the others did they ever try to escape?
They stayed simply because they were to elderly to leave or wanted to safe guard their property...if a man emigrated but his wife remained they did not have their propety confiscated..
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: Mari on July 10, 2007, 02:23:24 AM
Wow, there are so many sites out there I still learn something new all the time. clicking on the link Victims of the Revolution next to ...execution took me into a  huge list of the names of  the victims of the Guillotine....and now I have something to go back to as I continue to read in that era. I just wish my translator worked better! ;D
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: Eddie_uk on July 10, 2007, 04:50:06 AM
How do I know if my computer has a translator? :)
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: Mari on July 13, 2007, 01:59:53 AM
Eddieboy:
I don't know what your particular Computer would have.  One  free thing you can use is go into Google and on the bottom right hand side it will say language tools. Go into that and on the bottom portion of that page it will mention use the google interface in your language. Under that it will mention various ways to translate. I like the buttons. Go into that and drag it to the top of your Screen....French to English or whatever and then from now on when you are in a French site you can hit the Google button and it will translate the page on your screen. :)
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: Eddie_uk on July 13, 2007, 02:15:48 AM
Thank you so much Mari!!! I will certainly do that. It looks such an interesting website and will enjoy much more as my French is appaling! :)
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: Mari on July 31, 2007, 03:09:34 PM



Anne Claude Louise d' Arpajon was born on March 4, 1729. She was carried out on June 27, 1794, in Paris, at the 65 years age.

She is the girl of Louis d' Arpajon (1667-1736), marquis then duke with patent of Arpajon, lieutenant general, governor of Berry and Anne Charlotte the Bottom of Montargis (1695-1767), lady of the duchess of Berry.

She was married in 1741 in Philippe de Noailles (1715-1794), duke of Mouchy, Marshal of France, governor of the castles of Versailles and Marly, wire of Adrien Maurice de Noailles (1678-1766), duke of Noailles, Francoise and Marshal of France Charlotte Amable d' Aubigné (1684-1739), niece and heiress of Madam de Maintenon.

From this union were born:

Louise Henriette Filipino Charlotte of Noailles (1745-1832),
married in 1760 with Celestial Emmanuel Augustin de Durfort, duke of Durfort-Lasted (1741-1800)

Philippe Louis Marc Antoine de Noailles (1752-1819), Pitch prince and duke, duke of Mouchy
Married to Anne Louise Marie de Beauvau (1750-1834)

Louis Marie de Noailles (1756-1804), Viscount of Noailles.

Anne Claude Louise d' Arpajon, duchess and marshal's wife de Mouchy, were lady of the palate then first lady-in-waiting of the Queen Marie Antoinette who called it “Mrs Étiquette”.
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MessageSubject: Apartment of Anne Claude Louise d' ArpajonToday with 8:06   
Its apartments of Versailles:

From 1741 to 1755, it settles with her husband in the residences of function known as " of the Government " located in the wing of the same name between the royal court and the passage of the vault.
The husbands have then 2 parts, 1 with chimney (apartment N° 28) and of 15 parts, 14 with chimneys including 3 obscure and 3 mezzanines including 1 with chimney (apartment N° 29).

See blondel, board 8 apartment G

This old wing is made materials of bad quality. Its structure is overloaded by the reserves of the furniture depository located in the stages. It knows recurring problems of water leakages and infiltrations. In 1748, the count de Noailles asks a visit and for repairs there.
In 1755, the condition of the wing is very bad, it asks the king to give a room to his wife in the wing of north as soon as possible. The husbands then left the wing of the government for the wing of North. This solution was to be only provisional, during work of rebuilding of the wing of the government or the count de Noailles hopes to reinstall himself with his service. This work never succeeded.

Between 1756-1758, the husbands had the apartment N° 31 at the ground floor of the wing of north in the large house close to the gallery to stone giving on the court to the opera. It counted 5 parts with chimneys then, 3 mezzanines including 1 with chimney. They took it again with the princess of Carignan.

See Blondel, board 2, apartment m

In 1756, he writes to the king: “The count de Noailles asks for Your Majesty the permission of exchange his housing on the court with Mrs. the princess of Carignan. With the help of this arrangement, it will be established as it will be able in the new government and his wife will have only one room and garde-robe while waiting for that Mrs. the duchess of Lauraguais has some another and yields to it his to him.”

In fact 3 generations of Noailles benefitted from this apartment 31 until 1786. Between 1758 and 1767, it was lent to his mother, the duchess of Arpajon, then in 1768 allotted to his beautiful daughter, the princess of Pitch and temporarily with its son the Viscount of Noailles.

It settles of 1758 to 1781 in apartments 38 and 38A located at the ground floor of the large house, just with the lower part of those of her husband (48 and 48A).
It taking again these apartments with the marchioness of Goësbriand, rams to accompany Ladies the juniors and with the duchess of Lauraguais, rams atour of the dauphine one.


I
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: Mari on July 31, 2007, 03:23:49 PM
It did not have the same madness of the mirrors that her husband It even paid them it (2 for its mezzanines and for its part of the baths). There its load of lady-in-waiting of the queen however imposed work in the apartment to be able to receive a many crowd.

In February 1766, Mr. de Noailles written to the king:
“The lady-in-waiting was perfectly well placed to come three days per month to Versailles, but holding a great state daily and having very often 25 people with supper, it is impossible to be gone back there. She can arrange herself in the apartment which she has by sacrificing her mezzanines and conveniences to the approval of the public. She is given there. Does your Majesty want to enable him well to introduce to its request at Mr. the marquis de Marigny who will take the orders of Your Majesty when it will have made him his remarks which would not be indiscreet? She wished that that could be done during Compiegne.”

That was approved but the cost of work proved to be prohibitory:
“State of the works requested by Mrs. the countess of Noailles to have a cabinet of company of a size to being able to contain the people whom it is obliged to receive at it; that which it currently has being… too small, which cannot be made u' by changing the distributions in its housing for, of the anteroom which is larger a part, to make the cabinet of company… Total 12.500 books”

The king did not judge by the way that the 12.500 books of the estimate is with the load of the only Building industries, the more so as 15.000 books were already planned for the apartment of the count de Noailles right to the top.
In a letter addressed to Louis XV, the countess of Noailles put forward then that required work, namely widening of its dining room and its room of company, was only for the good of the public and to make honor of the court by holding a great state. She also recalled the king that similar work had been begun and paid by the Building industries for other people having load at the court like the marchioness of Narbonne, rams atour Mrs Adélaïde.
The count de Noailles then offered to pay one the third of work on the expenditure of the Government. And the building site was committed. What did not prevent an expenditure complementary to 500 pounds in the count and the countess that Mr. de Noailles succeeds in charging to the services of the caretaker's lodge.

In 1778, Mr. de Noailles yields his load of governor of Versailles to his son, the Poix prince.
He then divides apartments 38 and 38A with his wife. They will be replaced there temporarily by the cardinal of Rohan, large chaplain of France.

Between 1781-1786, the countess reinstalls herself in apartment 31 of the wing of the North, which it had occupied of 1755 to 1758. She has there 6 parts including 3 with chimneys, 5 mezzanines including 1 with chimney. She finds herself beside that of her husband, N° 32.

Finally from 1786-1789, it turns over with her husband in apartments 38 and 38A made vacant by the disgrace and the exile of the cardinal of Rohan. The husbands settle in 6 parts including 4 with chimneys and 5 mezzanines including 2 with chimneys.
_________________
“Lord, the mills disappeared but the wind remained”
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Mr. de Noisy
Prince Etranger




   Translation of site...using computer
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: PrincessSophie on August 14, 2007, 05:26:12 AM
Try this page http://www.appl-lachaise.net/appl/article.php3?id_article=474.

It has a sketch of Mme Etiquette as a jeune fille.
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: Lisa on September 01, 2007, 06:55:18 AM
I don't thnik it's the same woman... It's Anna de Noailles, who lived at the end of the XIXth c,.
Here is the maréchale:
(http://www.photo.rmn.fr/LowRes2/TR1/XDPTBI/06-519739.jpg) Louvre.
 Rmn site (http://www.photo.rmn.fr/cf/htm/CSearchZ.aspx?o=&Total=66&FP=33791722&E=22S39UW8LJVNM&SID=22S39UW8LJVNM&New=T&Pic=22&SubE=2C6NU0PXKXKX)
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: pers on September 05, 2007, 08:04:39 AM
Hi Lisa,  yes this is the correct drawing of Madame l'Ettiquette.  I also saw it on another French website, and now of course I cannot find the thread so that I can post the link!
Title: Re: Any portraits of Comtesse de Noailles?
Post by: ashdean on September 05, 2007, 09:47:48 AM
In the multi million pound sale of the contents of the last  Viscount Leverhulme's Thornton Manor (on the Wirral, near Liverpool) a few years ago a marble topped commode with the provenace of the Mouchys couples Versaillies suite was sold.