Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Iberian Royal Families => Topic started by: Grand Duke on July 11, 2005, 06:26:07 PM

Title: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Grand Duke on July 11, 2005, 06:26:07 PM
Introducing to you all the worst, the ugliest, the most evil and the most wicked Queen of Portugal.


Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Marc on July 11, 2005, 07:23:20 PM
She was rather pretty when she was young,wasn't she?
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Luke on July 12, 2005, 12:29:35 AM
My favorite CJ stories:

1.  During the Peninsular War, she tried to become Regent of the Spanish Colonies in South America and even plotted to be recognized as heir to the Spanish throne.

2.  She hated Brazil so much that when the Peninsular War was over, she boarded the ship to return to Portugal, got on board the ship, took off her shoes, and publically shook the Brazilian dust from them.

3.  She refused to attend the Cortes to swear loyalty to the constitution after the arrival in Portugal (she said she was ill).  She was an absolutist (divine right of kings and all that) to the core.  

4.  Her attempt to put her son Miguel in power over her husband and his outflanking her by calling in some British cards.  She was exiled briefly -- I would have exiled her to one of the Portugese Asian possesions permanently.

Sir Marcus Cheke wrote a biography of her.

Has anyone ever seen the movie: Carlota Joaquina, Princesa do Brazil made in the mid-90's by Carla Camurati.  I have not although I heard it wasn't very good.

I agree, she was much more attractive in her youth.  This would somewhat explain the fact that both of her sons were extremely goodlooking.


By the way, looks who's hand is firmly gripping the crown:

(http://www.multirio.rj.gov.br/historia/modulo02/imagens/f2016.jpg)
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: cantacuzene on July 12, 2005, 04:33:48 AM
Luke. Very good observations. Thank you. Please notice that woman who has her hand on the crown is not Carlota but her step mother, a rainha louca.
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: umigon on July 12, 2005, 06:16:17 AM


By stepmother I understand you meant mother-in-law  ;)

During the Spanish War of Independence, at the same Carlota Joaquina tried to gain the Regency (for this purpose she even wrote to the Cortes of Cádiz praising their labour and their CONSTITUTION!!), she also tried to gain... the Crown of Río de la Plata (this is Argentina, Uruguay and some more, can't remember right now).


Although she was an ugly woman, she was an attractive woman in her young years. A courtier said she had ''hidden charms'', we can imagine what he meant by that... The proof is that although Carlota Joaquina and her husband hated each other, they had 12 children in total, the first one in 1793 and the last one in 1820. Maybe King Joao didn't hate all of her, just her ambitions and her character...
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Grand Duke on July 12, 2005, 05:58:55 PM
Quote
She was rather pretty when she was young,wasn't she?


Yes, she was but many (myself included) think that her ambitions and evil turned into an ugly woman - ugly inside and outside!  :-/

young Carlota - very nice!

(http://www.constelar.com.br/revista/edicao80/imagens80/carlotajoaquina.jpg) by Debret.


Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Grand Duke on July 12, 2005, 06:42:23 PM
Carlota Joaquina

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Sebastiao/charlote.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Sebastiao/charl.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Sebastiao/CarlotaJoaq.jpg)

All paintings by Debret.
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Grand Duke on July 12, 2005, 06:49:49 PM
CARLOTA JOAQUINA

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Sebastiao/carlota_joaquina.jpg) (http://www.clubeco.com.ar/cultura/la_rev27.jpg)

Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Grand Duke on July 12, 2005, 06:52:10 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Sebastiao/CarlotaJoaquinaBorbon.jpg)
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Grand Duke on July 12, 2005, 06:59:52 PM


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Sebastiao/carlota2.jpg)
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: umigon on July 13, 2005, 12:15:59 AM


Well, I don't think Carlota was ever beautiful. As a child, she must have been less ugly than as an adult woman, but of course those portraits showing us a pretty young girl are nothing but flattering portraits to content the King, her grandfather Carlos III. Of course they were also great pieces of art.



Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: cantacuzene on July 13, 2005, 05:14:11 AM
I would like to comment that the reason the mother in law of Carlota caress the crown i this: That means Maria was soverein queen by her own right, beeing her husband king too, co-ruler. something like Mary II and William III Orange. Carlota Joaquina was queen consort. the fact of touching the crown symbolizes the true and legitime right of Maria was prior to her husband in all case. Maria was Princess of Brasil, Carlota, Infanta of Spain. It is an important difference to consider before going on.       

                                               thanks to you all.
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Rebecca on July 14, 2005, 02:12:26 AM
Hello!

What were the names and dates of birth (and date of death) of the children of Carlota Joaquina and her husband?

I only know about these: Tereza (1793-1874), Antonio (1795-1801), Isabel (1797-1818), Pedro (1798-1834), Maria Francisca (1800-34), Maria Isabel (1801-76), Miguel (1802-66), Maria Josefa (1805-34) and Ana (1806-57). That's "only" nine, and I read in a posting above that they had 12 children. Does anyone have information on the "lacking" 3 children?

Btw, this is the first time I´ve seen pictures of this reknown, vicious queen. Very interesting!  :)
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: umigon on July 14, 2005, 04:28:32 AM


Maria Josefa was actually called Maria da Assunçao!


The other three children were a baby boy who died after a few hours of his birth in 1810 (died unnamed).  Then Carlota had to stillborn girls, one in 1816 and another one in 1820.
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Rebecca on July 14, 2005, 05:26:56 AM
Umigon, thank you very much for sharing this information.  :)

Also thank you for the correction. I'll change Maria Josefa to Maria da Assunçao in my notes. :)
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Grand Duke on July 14, 2005, 05:19:36 PM
Quote
Judging from the pictures all of you have kindly posted, she was ugly indeed.


Yes, she was. We can't believe that those different painters that portraited Carlota were all bad artists!  
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: José on December 22, 2005, 01:48:56 PM
Quote

The proof is that although Carlota Joaquina and her husband hated each other, they had 12 children in total, the first one in 1793 and the last one in 1820. Maybe King Joao didn't hate all of her, just her ambitions and her character...



They had 9 children
1. D. Maria Teresa Pss. of Beira (1793-1874 )
2. D. António (1795-1801 )
3. D. Maria Isabel (1797-1818 )
4. D.Pedro (1798-1834 )
5. D. Maria Francisca (1800-1834 )
6. D. Isabel Maria (1801-76 )
7. D. Miguel (1802- 66 )
8. D. Maria da Assunção (1805-34 )
9. D. Ana de Jesus Maria (1806-57)
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: José on December 22, 2005, 01:54:33 PM
Quote

Maria Josefa was actually called Maria da Assunçao!


The other three children were a baby boy who died after a few hours of his birth in 1810 (died unnamed).  Then Carlota had to stillborn girls, one in 1816 and another one in 1820.


It is the first time I heard of these 3 children, but they certainly were not fathered by the king  ;D.
There a few authors who claim the 3 last children - D.Miguel, D.Maria da Assunção and D. Ana de Jesus Maria - were not D.João's since the couple lived separate lives at the time of their conception.
The king was very fond of Infanta D. Isabel Maria, whom he later appointed as Regent.
Despite her faux-pas and illegitimate children :-X

José
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Bernardino on December 22, 2005, 03:47:40 PM

Carlota Joaquina had been born to be a great King, but...she was a Queen, a bad Queen it seems  :-/...
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Callasboy on January 20, 2006, 04:26:08 PM
Has anyone ever wondered if she wasn't just a really bad drag queen?!?!?!?!?!?!? ;D ;D ;D

If you want to know more about this macheavelan queen try to read 'Empire Adrift' by Patrick Wilcken. It's a very interesting account of the Portuguese Court in Rio de Janeiro. Nasty lady....
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on June 13, 2007, 04:27:02 PM
Moving to Brazil must have also been hard, just the ocean voyage would have been hard. Could you imagine the ENTIRE COURT of Portugal on a ship journey that lasted almost a month. 

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 13, 2007, 07:58:25 PM
Indeed...Also travaling with a mad woman did not help !  :-\
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on June 13, 2007, 08:22:56 PM
Here is who I am guessing traveled to Brazil:

PLEASE NOTE:
I am sure that the people in bold went to Brazil, I am not sure about the others. 

-Maria I
-Joao VI
-Carlota Joaquina

-Prinncess Terese, Princess of Beira
-Maria Isabella (later Queen of Spain)
-Pedro I of Brazil
-Maria Francisca
-Isabella Maria
-Miguel I

-Maria da Assunção
-Ana de Jesus Maria

-Maria Francisca Benedita (daughter of Jose I)
-Mariana Francisca (daughter of Jose I)

PLEASE NOTE:
I am sure that the people in bold went to Brazil, I am not sure about the others. 

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 13, 2007, 08:43:03 PM
I think your list is just about right. Thanks for sharing.  ;)
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: umigon on June 14, 2007, 03:47:01 AM

All of them went to Brazil, Duke, and I would inculde Infante Pedro Carlos de Borbón, future husband of Dona Maria Teresa, who accompanied his Portuguese family to Brazil!
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: aron on July 02, 2007, 06:24:50 AM
I read that Carlota Joaquina's daughter Izabel Maria had illegitimate children. Can anyone give some details about this children and fathers?
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Yseult on July 02, 2007, 02:49:27 PM
All that I found is that she had a miscarriage or a stillborn son in 1826. She had a relationship with a man named Abrantes.
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: José on July 03, 2007, 01:44:57 PM
Infanta D.Isabel Maria was her father (D.João VI) favourite daughter.
After the wedding of her elder sisters, Infantas D.Maria Teresa, D.Maria Isabel and D.Maria Francisca, she was her father's great support and comfort in the dwelling times that arouse after the RF returned from Brazil .
As you may know, the king, who is usually depicted as an irresolute and even an imbecile, was in fact one of the most able kings and he had the vision to antecipate what might happen when Napoleon would invade Portugal - he would share the fate of his spanish cousins.
D.João was a perfect constitutional king and that infuriated his wife D.Carlota Joaquina who plotted against him with all her means, throwing her son D.Miguel against the king.
On one occasion, things became so difficult that, after a ball at the french embassy, attended by the king and the Infanta, the ambassadors of France, Spain and Britain managed to transfer them to a british vessel staying in the Tagus river to prevent them from being captured by D.Miguel's followers.
From there, the king was able to dismiss D.Miguel from his military post and secure that constitutionalism would prevail.
At the vessel however, the Infanta met an english officer who seduced her and she became pregnant.
That was really unfortunate for her as, at the time, there were talks to her marriage to the Prince de Condé, who broke the marriage as he heard of the pregnancy.
Opposite to what Yseult wrote, a girl was born and was raised near the palace . ( Some authors claim she had another child.)
On Eduardo Nobre's "Paixões Reais" there is a passage that confirms that not only she survived as she was (distantly) acknowledged by the RF.
One day, her cousin Queen D.Maria II had gone for a ride on a carriage and at the sidewalk there was D.Isabel Maria's daughter.
The Queen waved at her so much that she lost her bracelet. The girl caught it and was returned it to the queen that offered it to her.
D.Isabel Maria was a neurotic woman. She was very religious and in her will, she left all her wealth to some religious order.
I will try to find my "Eduardo Nobre" as I am writing from memory.

Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Bernardino on July 05, 2007, 11:16:52 AM
I might be wrong but I've heard she had twin daughters...but me too have to check Eduardo Nobre's...
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: umigon on September 19, 2007, 11:29:42 AM

I guess the match between D.José and his aunt was made not only out of affection, but also because of economic reasons. A match between two Portuguese princes would be cheaper than marrying off the prince to a foreign princess. Why? If a princess came to marry D.José, although she would bring along a dowry (back then not always paid, however), the Crown would have to give her a regular income. On the other hand, marrying a Portuguese infanta would mean that the Crown would only have to increase her income to that of a Princess of Beira. I think that was the case.
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: aron on September 19, 2007, 02:05:20 PM
It was king José's wish on his deathbed (he died 24 Feb 1777) that Maria Francisca Benedita would marry Jose. They married on 21 Feb 1777. Since Jose (1761-1788) was also the son of King Jose's brother Pedro III, once could consider Maria Francisca Benedita as a cousin of Jose (besides being his aunt on his mothers side). That was the reason that the Pope gave permission for this marriage.
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: José on April 23, 2008, 11:25:33 AM
Just read in a bio on Queen D.Carlota Joaquina that Madame Elizabeth, Louis XVI's sister could have become eventual Queen of Portugal.

During D.José's reign and under the firm hand of his Prime-Minister the Marquis of Pombal, Portugal stretched its alliance with Britain.
It was a time when portuguese and spanish interests were completely opposite, with Spain following France against Britain namely at the Seven Years War.
After the king's death, his daughter D.Maria I started an approach to Madrid, possibly influenced by her mother D.Maria Ana Victoria, Carlos III's sister.

Shortly after the king's death, Portugal and Spain signed the Santo Ildefonso treaty, regulating their south american borders.
One year later, in 1778, a new treaty - Treaty of Prado - aimed for a "more intimate and unbreakable friendship between the two countries".
It was the beginning for a true iberian alliance.

To cement this new friendship, as always, a wedding project was dealt:
Infante D.João would marry Infanta Carlota Joaquina and Infante Gabriel of Spain would marry D.João's sister Infanta Maria Ana Victoria.

London and Versailles, who took for grant the ascendance of its two allies, were not happy and did all they could not to loose their influence.
The french ambassador approached the heir to the throne Pr. D.José, Prince of Brazil, who was married to his aunt D. Maria Benedita, reproaching her for the fact that after all those years of marriage the couple remained childless, and induced him to ask for a divorce.

In turn France would gladly agree that the Prince would marry Madame Elizabeth, Louis XVI's sister.
But the plan aborted as the spanish ambassador, count of Fernan Nuñez heard of it and ran to the the Princess of Brazil warning her of what the french ambassador was planning
His letter to Madrid reveals his purposes:
"We had to do all in our power, both in Lisbon and in other courts, to prevent the divorce or if that was not possible, that the Prince of Brazil would marry a spanish Infanta".

The problem was that, at the time, there was no spanish Infanta available. D.Carlota Joaquina had been sent to Lisbon at the age of 10 to marry D.João.

With the sudden death of the Prince of Brazil in 1788, the spanish ambassador could breath with relief.
D.João was the new Prince of Brazil and a spanish Infanta would be the next Portuguese Queen.

Wonder what was Mme Elizabeth reaction to the possibility of becoming Portuguese Queen (if she ever knew that her name was being juggled by the chancelleries).
Well, at least she would have not had to endure the prison and death sentence passed by the french revolutionaires.
Unless, as a recent childless widow, she would have gone back to France...
Title: Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
Post by: Mari on April 25, 2008, 02:48:47 AM
She was opposed to the Portugal match. She had three Suitors and none of the Matches worked out. According to some Sources the one She felt regret for was Joseph II of Austria, Marie Antoinette's Brother. There are no written Sources I know of  verifying this. If only She had married one of these and  been saved from the horror of imprisonment and the guillotine.

Quote
On the 17th of May, 1778, the Court went to Marly. The king having determined to give his sister an establishment, she was on that day resigned into his hands by her then governess, the Princess de Guéménée, and His Majesty gave her the Comtesse Diane de Polignac as lady of honor, with the Marquise de Sérent as lady-in-waiting. From that moment there was question of her marriage. Her hand seemed, in the first instance, destined to the Infant of Portugal, Prince of Brazil, who was the same age as herself and would eventually have brought her the title of queen. While she saw the conveniences of this alliance, Madame Élisabeth was far from wishing it, and though she personally put no obstacle in the way, she was comforted on learning that the negotiations were broken off. [Page 9]
Quote





Ruin of a Princess as told by the Duchesse d'Angoulême, Madame Elisabeth, Sister of Louis XVI, and Cléry, the King's Valet de Chambre, translated by Katharine Prescott Wormeley. New York: The Lamb Publishing Co., 1912.