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Messages - Espella

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The Hohenzollern / Re: End of the Monarchies
« on: September 29, 2007, 08:31:27 AM »

Some seem to think that McArthur would have loaded the Lincoln Monument on a barge and given it to the Japanese if he could have.  Do you think he went overboard in coddling the Japanese after seeing what happened with the dismissal of the Hzs in Germany?

The Hohenzollern / Re: Germany post Hohenzollern Monarchy
« on: September 27, 2007, 09:17:30 PM »
HerrKaiser and GreenOwl,

I am learning so much from you scholars.  I just looked up basic info on the Gustloff, and that was horrible.  However, to HK, you seem to suggest that after someone bombs the hell out of you, whether they're able to sustain horrendous damage or not, you should slap them with your gloves and agree on a time to meet in the dawn.  Since you are a scholar, you know the famous Sherman quote, "War is helll, and the harder it is ..."   If the leader is crazy, who put the leader in office?  To use a pseudo cliche, "First time, shame on you.  Second time, shame on me."  That was the second time in how many years that the Allies had to fight that same enemy.  Of course, it could have been headed off.  Why would you let a vanquished foe build up again to become a power who could take on the world?  And with the network of spies, the Allies knew what was going on.  It's ridiculous that the people of Dresden and the farm boys from Iowa lost their lives when it truly could have been prevented.

Both sides were barbaric.  In the Burns epic, one airmen said he didn't drink with or make friends because after the next bombing run into Germany, he would be dead or his drinking buddy would be.  They flew in the dark and were slaughtered by the Germans.  They couldn't hit their targets with any accuracy,  and would still be sent back to be slaughtered.

I don't know about bombings after the cease fire, but I did hear about food drops by American airmen because so many Germans were starving.  Of course, the flip side is that many were also slaughtered.  That happens in war. That's why it should be prevented if at all possible.

Now, back to the Hohenzollerns and reparations

Yes, maybe we should get back, but I want to continue this discussion under whatever thread.  HerrKaiser is so informative, he makes me want to go get some history books.  However, since I didn't look at your profile, I thought you were German.  I didn't know the Germans suffered such a loss of civilian life until watching WWII by Ken Burns the other night.  However, HK, I don't see how that's any different from the bombing of England.  You seem to suggest that the Allies were not justified.

Also, since I'm also "learning," I thought the German government simply budgeted for reparations out of their yearly budget and remitted them to the powers that be, and that lasted for a few years.  I didn't know there was a reparations tax on people and businessses just like a sales tax!!!! and it even goes on now.  When will it be finished?  How is it divided up?  What is it used for?

Okay, under what thread should our discussion go?

Thank you HerrKaiser for that detailed response.  It must be nice to renounce your title, keep your castles and money and continue to call yourself Grand Duke ...  You're probably right that the Zollerns and the other dukes didn't have the Communists breathing down their necks, but I still think there was a bit of leniency.  The Americans and French probably didn't give a whit about the castles as long as reparations were made which history says were horrendous.  That leaves the British, and I think the family connectedness of everyone allowed the Germans to basically keep everything. 

Did the Zollerns sell Ceceliehof and the other hofs and that's why they're hotels now?

What was her cause of death and are there pictures where she's buried?

She didn't seem to age well.  The picture at Czar Nicholas' coronation is so pretty.  I almost don't recognize her in later pictures.  Of course, the murder of your children will age you.  I wondered why Queen Victoria of Sweden interceded on her behalf for sanctuary, but since they're standing next to each other at the coronation ball picture of the grand duchesses, they must have been friends.  Friends tend to stand near each other for picture taking.

She left Sweden for Belgium because it was too expensive in Sweden.  Does anyone know how she supported herself and her large family?

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