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Messages - zackattack

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1


And I can speak directly to two points that have been raised:

Eurohistory conference: Penny did not dispute the DNA findings and remained consistent with what I have said all along is the view of Kurth and others on the Imperial Family remains found in the 1990s. Which is, the remains belong to the IF, but they do not agree that AA was FS. I was in the room for Penny's entire presentation. Her talk, as Ilana and Larry can back me up, was about - since AA could not have been Anastasia and we think not Franziska, who was she? Penny presented several interesting ideas - but they were presented as ideas, nothing more.

This throws that whole Penny still thinks AA was Anastasia thing right out the window.


At this point, how is presenting the "possibility" that AA was some random Russian noblewoman who lost her fortune (and her accent!) in the chaos of the Russian Revolution really that different then arguing that she was Anastasia? the odds against the possibility of a random mtdna match are really quite incredible. But this has all been discussed to death in the "survivors" section.

Were these "ideas" presented with any evidence?

2
Just because she didn't write "I am distraught and this has made me cry" doesn't mean she didn't feel that way. She is clearly bothered, for herself and her mother. Also, this was before Marie F. died, so it was before the vicious attacks by AA supporters. It was also before several decades of trials and accusations of 'abandonment'. So if she was already bothered by it this early it does look like the emotional stress and pain would have gotten much worse over the years as the case dragged on and on throughout her life. I feel so sorry for her having to suffer so long, and dying without it ever being resolved and her name being cleared.

Another interesting thing about this letter is what she said about Andre'. Obviously she doesn't accept for a second that he may really think AA was AN, or that AA might possibly be AN, but seems to say that since he couldn't believe it and he had to be up to something. I have always thought that might be it long before I ever saw this letter. As a member of the Vladimirovichi line, he would have been(besides his brothers) the last person to want a real heir of "Nicky" to show up alive. Also as a member of that branch of Romanovs, he wouldn't have known the real AN anyway, since there was estrangement between his family and the IF, and because he was dating/married to Nicky's old mistress. What a doubly awkward guest he'd have made. For these two reasons, I doubt he ever had enough contact with the real AN to judge any claimant one way or the other. Of course after Gleb's letter, he dropped his support for the AA camp anyway. We will never know what his original intentions and ulterior motives on the case were, but I, like Olga, do not believe he ever believed AA to be AN.


This is the full English translation of Olga's letter:


February, 15th 1928

Dear Ms bxxx

Thank you for your nice letter.

Indeed, you understand like us the absurdity of this story! More and more, I see that this story is all about blackmail and money. Let’s say I’m mistaken.

But how can you believe that her maid, Ms Gilliard, who knows her since she was 6 weeks (and Mr Gilliard, who was as well with the beloved family until the moment they were separated in June 1918) could be mistaken?

It’s ridiculous as well to say that the grand mother and I don’t want to have her close to us.

What a shame to talk like that.

I say openly that my cousin André must have some vile motives to side against us…

Uncle from Hesse is also serene with the fact that the person is not our niece. He has proofs, as you may have seen or read in “L’Illustration” where the photos of the ears were, now it’s a known fact that the ears never change.

Now to answer your question: Mother feels healthy for her age. My heart too, but every unpleasant event (like the renewal of the Tchaik History) disturb my heart and makes it beat too fast. At night this is bothersome because I feel it more.

I’ve had a little flu with fever, two days in bed and sore throat.

Currently I’m working again relentlessly on our aquarelles, producing things about Crimea.

I have some sketches with me here and I’m working out, mixing things together, so much that I have the feeling the day is too short…

I can start at 8:30am, but at 4pm I can’t work anymore, and I have many other duties…

The boys are charming! They prefer German lessons to French lessons!

Together we saw a very interesting movie: “The man without homeland” (American), very patriotic and nice. They were overjoyed!

We send you our best wishes.

Greetings from Mother, Xenia, Emilia Jr, Cecilia and Gustav.

I kiss you heartily, dear Ms bxxx

Olga
i

3
Maybe it isn't such a good idea to have a lot of random people bugging these guys. And who knows who might misquote them and we'd never know?  FA, how about if you gather the info yourself and write a piece for the Time Machine? I'm sure it would be interesting and helpful.

Very true about the "random people" bugging these guys. That was what I was afraid of. So I figured I'd give the information to the FA and let him be the  judge on the subject. You know, I actually received alot of hate emails-all of which I found very funny- at my old email address chastising me for not posting someone's private address and phone number on this website for all the world to see. Would these people have liked it if I printed their private information on here? I think we all know the answer to that one.

   

4
The estimation of reliability that Anna Manahan was FS was estimated by Gill and other researchers who sequenced the material to be 98.5-99.5% likely.
Aren't those odds as great as the earth being round? Still haven't found those stats
I would say it's 100% proven that the earth is round. All you have to do is go into space and see for yourself.
Actually, the odds are about 99.9 % that the earth is round. In science, it seems, there isn't 100% proof for anything. But people fail to realize just how small that .00000001 really is.... 

5
The estimation of reliability that Anna Manahan was FS was estimated by Gill and other researchers who sequenced the material to be 98.5-99.5% likely.
Aren't those odds as great as the earth being round? Still haven't found those stats

6
I have two questions really and maybe they should go in separate threads; if so, please advise.  Forgive me if either have already been discussed - I have read as many of the old posts as I can and also done a search, but can't find any detail.


1.    Is there any verifiable information about the purported fiance?    Any thoughts as to whether or not he actually existed?   I don't know where the story came from and I have never seen him named. 

2.    How many asylums was FS in prior to her disappearance and how detailed are the records?   What was the specific diagnosis and do you think that if she was assessed today she would be classified as "insane" rather than, say,clinically depressed or having a nervous breakdown?  (Any psychiatrists out there?)    Certainly in Britain  as late as the early 1950s there were women who were committed for all sorts of shocking reasons including so-called immorality - eg  because they had an illegitimate baby.  (This could also relate to the debate about whether or not FS had a baby?)


Thanks

Liz


Hi Liz

You should really contact Maurice Paul Remy,he keeps an archive on FS, as well as  members of Francisska's family, and the film maker Julian Nott. I gave all the contact info I have on them  to the FA. Ask him and  he might be able to help you in that area. Good luck! 

7
There are a lot of 'woulds' and 'ifs' floating about on this thread.

Yurovsky says he shot Alexei twice through the head because he was still alive after the first volley. Yurovsky also said he burned the bodies of Alexandra and Alexei, then changes his mind to Demidova and Alexei. We now know that isn't true, because we have the physical evidence to prove it (ie, it is not Alexandra nor Demidova who is missing from the mass grave).

Therefore, we cannot take witness statements such as those from Yurovsky as proof of what did, should, could or would have happened.

All we know is that Alexei was never seen again after the execution. We also know that he had haemophilia. We know that circumstancial evidence (buttons and I believe items from his pockets) were found in the bottom of the Three Brothers Mine, which points to his corpse being there with the others. From this evidence we can deduce that Alexei was most probably killed with the rest of his family. Was he shot in the head in the manner that Yurovsky claimed? Was he still alive after the first round of executions, or simply performing the involuntary actions the body produces after death? We'll probably never know for sure. If we find the skeleton, we'll be able to know, if it's in good enough condition, whether a bullet did pass through his skull. But that's it. Nothing more conclusive than that.

More importantly, a lack of physical evidence does NOT therefore lead to those claiming to be Alexei in the 20s, 30s and so on to be telling the truth. I am hoping Binky is being sarcastic, but you never can tell on this board.

Rachel
xx

Question: Isn't the original translation on the 1918 Yurovsky note "they wanted to burn Alexandra and Alexei" but by mistake "they burned Alexei and the Maid"? If I'm not mistaken, Yurovsky never says "I burned them" or "I was mistaken"

8
Thank you again, Zack. I had long suspected there was stuff out there that was never published that would seriously hurt Andersen's case. Of course, anyone writing a book in her favor is not going to use those things. Zack, how about you write a book telling the true story, and finally put this legend to rest?

Who would be my audience? People who don't understand that the odds of Anna Anderson being anyone other than FS are roughly the same as the world being flat...and seem to think that finding or not finding a birth certificate would change that? .

 For example, I was discussing the comments made regarding John Klier having "several items of interest" that were not included in his book which led him to "speculate that Gertrude and several of the other children may have been from the second marriage" . Well, when I inquired what this person believed these "items of interest" were she replied..."documents". Well, she had earlier made it clear that Gertrude's birth was "undocumented". So, was Gertrude's birth at this point undocumented or were there documents relating to it? If so, then it's not undocumented! Was it a letter? Court document? What?  It just didn't make any sense . Well, she wasn't very pleased when I asked that question, it was very funny, as the question is quite harmless ..I"m just glad I've never used my real first or last name here...or my  online death notice might appear! ;D 

 These people are free to believe what they want,  they're a small minority, and I can care less as I have the answer. And am not really interested in researching further. . I just  ignore the rest.

However, there are people that are interested in this topic and would like to learn, and don't want to just spin their wheels. So that's why I think it would be great to have an archive section for Anna Anderson if MP Remy is interested. Imagine all the questions that could be answered for those who want to learn!  So, I've forewarded all the contact information for MP Remy, Julian Nott, and the Schankowsky family to the FA. It really is up to him, but the poor man has so much else he has to deal with on this great website that I wouldn't be surprised  if he's not able to get around to it for awhile.

In the meantime, anyone who is interested in this topic should simply get on the internet and start researching. It really wasn't that difficult and it's all at your fingertips. I'll admit, I have an advantage over many, but it's not something that can't be overcome. The internet is free for most!  Just don't engage in "celebrity" worship, keep in positive, and you'll be fine.   

Good luck everyone. 

9
Thank you Zack Attack for the interesting info. Especially this

Quote
worried that Margarita would be prosecuted for Franciska's activities

That makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Of course the family would still be afraid of that, and as you also mentioned, 'embarrassed.' This is why they don't speak out more about her. It's a shame they don't, it would stop a lot of outrageous theories from going around.

Here is another:


xxxxxxxxxxxx

I'm afraid again I have to say I really don't remember the details some
10 years later.  I'm not an Anna Anderson fanatic!!!

I think you could do these things:

1.  Go to Harvard and look at Anna Anderson's lawyer's files. There
were witness statements he had about the Schanzkowska family - a lot of
information that  nobody has ever published. (Look in the Kurth book
for where the archive is and what it is called - I can't remember). For
example there are descriptions of Francesca's scars which match with
Anna Anderson's.

2. Ask for access to the Hesse archive in Germany - they came up with
the Scaknzkowska theory after research, as you will know.

3. Speak to Philip Remy , a German TV producer who has done more
research on AA than anybody else. He'll be on top of this subject quite
possibly. (Tel number a few years ago was: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

4. Speak to Felix Schanzkowska's daughter, if she is still alive (she
was 8 years ago). She told me Anna Anderson was her father's sister and
they all knew all along but didn't want to give her away. I didn't use
her on my TV programme because she wanted money to speak which was
against our policy.
Her phone number used to be (in Germany) :

Waltraud von Czenskowski (is what she calls herself rather grandly)
Hamburg: xxxxxxxxxxx
MERSEBERG:xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

5. Why don't you track down Carl Maucher and ask him? He was living an
hour south of Munich. You'll probably find him in the phone book!
However he doesn't speak English. I could try to find his address for
you but it will take me some time because all my records are stored 6
hours away from where I am. I suggest you try the phone book first.


Hope that helps

Julian

10


Don't know why. But I'll also type in bold too, just for the fun of it. Write to Carl Maucher and ask him for whatever documents he might have. I'm not involved in any AA research at the moment. Would you like his address?

IF  I remember anything more, find any of my old notes, are need to make any correction due to faulty memory, I will be happy to share it with everyone here on the forum.

Yes,  please,  I'd like to write directly to Carl Maucher.   So,  yes,  I'd like his address.

Thank you very much.

I  will never  fault anyone for a  honest  faulty memory since   I'm 65 and  know full well that  memory doesn't   get better.  If you thought I was mocking you or being critical,  I'm sorry.

AGRBear

Apology accepted Bear, but there are alot more people on this board you should be apologizing to. And I do hope your words about faulty memory are sincere.  However, knowing your tendancy to misquote in the name of "fun"  I can't in good faith give you Carl Maucher's address. You'll just have to get it from another source.   

11


No you don't Bear, Penny Wilson gave you part of that information, the rest comes from me, courtesy of Julian Knott. Butgiven how you're history of giving out false information through misquotes and "creative editing",  I'm not surprised by your statement that it came only from her.

Why do you always want someone else to do your work for you? Go for it. Contact Julian Knott, contact MP Remy, contact the Schankowsky family. But, given you tendancy to believe that something is a fact because Penny Wilson said so, and that you still do not seem to understand that Gertrude's birth certificate actually isn't important.   I highly doubt finding Gertrud's birth certificate will clear your mind of "doubt". For I'm sure the following week there will be a thread entitled : THEORY OF GERTRUDE'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE BEING FORGED-IS QUEEN ELIZABETH II RESPONSIBLE? 



You recieved the information from Julian Knott and are telling me that you  place it somewhere here on the forum first.  That  is great!  Evidently I didn't recall that you had done so or  just didn't realize it.  So sorry.  I'll be more than happy to give where  credit is due.  I just remembered Penny's chart..

I have not mentioned the missing Gertrude's birth or baptismal certificate as being a theory.  I've never seen it.  Nor have I found it  and from what I had understood,  until your post,  was that  no one else has either.   Your post is the first time I heard that  Julian Knott has it.  I certainly have not suggested  that Julian Knotts has  "FORGED"  a birth certificate or any other docutment.  Where did you ever get that silly idea?

E-mail me and I'd be more than happy to contact Julian Knott or anyone else you'd care for me to speak to directly.

If I have ever mistquoted ANYONE  at ANYTIME,  I will apologize and correct my errors.  Always have and always will. 

I really don't care where the truth takes me,  I'm just enjoying the journey.

 

AGRBear

You just did it again Bear. You know darn well that I never said that you said Julian Knott forged Gertrude's birth certificate. You just made that up. Besides which, the person to contact is Carl Maucher, not Julian Knott. My memory was incorrect and Mr. Maucher had the information, not Julian Knott.


12
Thank you Zack Attack for the interesting info. Especially this

Quote
worried that Margarita would be prosecuted for Franciska's activities

That makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Of course the family would still be afraid of that, and as you also mentioned, 'embarrassed.' This is why they don't speak out more about her. It's a shame they don't, it would stop a lot of outrageous theories from going around.

I did find another email. In this one I asked him if there were any private family papers, such as letters, in which family members discussed Anna Anderson as one of their own. I also asked him about the fate of FS's siblings, Gertrude and Felix. That's when I found out Gertrude had still been alive at the time of the DNA tests. I also asked why Mr. Webb had not given a blood sample. He was, after all, just as closely related as Carl Maucher:

XXXX


 From memory, I don't think there were any papers. They weren't that
kind of family. Of course there are German court papers which are
archived somewhere, although I seem to remember they are very hard to
access.

I don't know what happened to Felix or Gertrude. Gertrude was old an
ill 10 years ago so I think the explanation is obvious.

I can't remember why Mr Webb didn't give a blood sample.

 

13

.....[in part]....

I also contacted Julian Knott, the film maker originally responsible for the DNA tests. I thought that no scientist would be stupid enough to go ahead with these tests if they thought that there was any chance that FS and Gertrude might not be related along the maternal line. He replied that this certainly was not brought up at the time of the tests. He questioned several members of the family, and was given a full family tree, as well as documents relating to the birth of FS and Gertrude. Gertrude was still alive at the time of the DNA tests and, interesting side note, Gertrude's daughter Margarita was supposed to be the original blood donor. However, both Gertrude and Margarita were worried that Margarita would be prosecuted for Franciska's activities if there was a match, so she refused to donate blood. Carl Maucher volunteered instead. 

..... 

I made your words in bold where you talked about the documents relating to the brith of FS and Gertrude.

AGRBear

Don't know why. But I'll also type in bold too, just for the fun of it. Write to Carl Maucher and ask him for whatever documents he might have. I'm not involved in any AA research at the moment. Would you like his address?

IF  I remember anything more, find any of my old notes, are need to make any correction due to faulty memory, I will be happy to share it with everyone here on the forum.

14
Penny and Greg gave us this information over a year ago.

I gave it, again, on this page of this thread, already.

Curious One, last years or was it longer,  had contacted Dr. Ginther and had gotten directly from him what he on on the samples he had in reguards to the AA tests.

I can find what he told Curious One about not wanting to know how the people were related because he didn't want to know,  if'd you like me to repeat his words exactly. 


So,  my request is,  since I and others were not able to find Gertrude , nee S., Ellrich's birth or death certificate,  that I'd very much like to see a copy of it.

The birth certificate will give the name of both parents.  The baptismal entry into the church records  willl give the name of both parents, God parents and witnesses and sometimes the names of the people who were present which usually incluces grand parents, aunts, uncles, cousins and a good friend or two.....

I am mainly interested in finding the family background of Gertrude's mother.

Thanks.

AGRBear
[/quote]

No you don't Bear, Penny Wilson gave you part of that information, the rest comes from me, courtesy of Julian Knott. Butgiven how you're history of giving out false information through misquotes and "creative editing",  I'm not surprised by your statement that it came only from her.

Why do you always want someone else to do your work for you? Go for it. Contact Julian Knott, contact MP Remy, contact the Schankowsky family. But, given you tendancy to believe that something is a fact because Penny Wilson said so, and that you still do not seem to understand that Gertrude's birth certificate actually isn't important.   I highly doubt finding Gertrud's birth certificate will clear your mind of "doubt". For I'm sure the following week there will be a thread entitled : THEORY OF GERTRUDE'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE BEING FORGED-IS QUEEN ELIZABETH II RESPONSIBLE? 


15
Looking through one of my old email accounts, I did find one of the emails Julian Knott sent to me. I do apoligize for any lapses in memory. Here is part of his email to me:


Further to my email to you of yesterday, last night I discovered I
have
 more materials at home than I thought.

 Carl Maucher's address is:

 XXXXXXX
 XXXXXXX
 XXXXXXX
 Germany

 (Remember he doesn't speak at English).

 I previously said something to you which was wrong. He did NOT know
 Anna Andersen was his relation, but he did know he had a missing
 great
 aunt.

 He was living with his aunt Margarete Ellerik at the same address.

 Margarete Ellerik wouldn't give us a blood sample. She was worried about being

 held liable for Franzisca's activities.  But she did give

 a sample to Philip Remy (the German TV producer I mentioned in my
email
 of yesterday).

 The FSS who did the main DNA tests got Carl Maucher's mtDNA.
 Margarete's mtDNA was got by a Dr Ginther at Berklee. The scientists
 compared their results, and they were the same.

 Maucher's blood taking was supervised by a local notary:

 Gerhard Sayer
 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 It was all filmed also.

 Maucher explained the family tree as this.

 Franzisca had 5 siblings: Maria-Juliana, gertrud, Walter, Felix,
 Valerian. (One more than previously documented I think).

 Gertrud's children were:

 1. Another Gertrud m. Maucher
 Carl Maucher's mother.

 2, Hedwig Lander
She was alive, but wouldn't give us a blood sample.

 3. Margarete
 Who lived with Carl Maucher & gave Philip Remy a blood sample

 4. Magdalene m. Weber
 Had a son called Herbert Weber, who was very
 helpful to us, and in fact introduced us to Carl
 Maucher.

Thanks, jeremy. Hopefully this will finally put an end to the unfounded "half-sister" speculations (I doubt it though  ;)). Of course there is always a possibillity (as usual) of... you know... a conspiracy!   :o

The conspiracy probably also involves the people who are still trying to make us believe that the world is flat.  ::) ;)

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