Messages

1

The Windsors / Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife

« on: January 26, 2012, 11:47:54 PM »

In the group wedding photograph picture posted by Grandduchessella (reply #168 on Pg. 12), the people standing are as follows from left to right: Princess Victoria, the Duke of Fife, Princess Louise, Princess May of Teck, Princess Marie Louise of Schleswig-Holstein, Countess Feodora Gleichen.  The people seated below are Princess Maud, Countess Helena Gleichen, Countess Victoria Gleichen, Princess Helena Victoria of Schleswig-Holstein.

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The Tudors / Re: Romance between Elizabeth of York and Richard III?

« on: October 25, 2011, 11:34:28 AM »

I think you're right, that it may have made a difference that they were Iberian.  There are plenty of examples of first cousin marriage among the Aragonese, Castilian, and Portuguese royal families during the 14th and 15th centuries.  Iberia was still at the edge of christendom.  Perhaps the pope was probably more willing to bend rules where marriage alliances were concerned, when it meant peace and an alliance between two catholic countries.  There was also the whole papal schism.  The rival popes and "antipopes" were often on shaky ground and were more likely to let their supporters do whatever they want.  I think Portugal, Aragon, and Castile may have varied in which pope they supported.

In the case of Richard III and Elizabeth of York, perhaps arguments like prevention of civil war and greater obedience to Rome could have been persuasive enough to gain a papal dispensation...  But who can say.  I think there was also a cultural bias against these types of marriages in England.

3

The Tudors / Re: Romance between Elizabeth of York and Richard III?

« on: October 24, 2011, 06:47:37 PM »

Here are the examples I could think of.  They mostly involve half-,rather than full relations, but the Catholic Church treated these relations the same as far as laws of consanguinity were concerned.

1. Infante John, youngest son of John I, King of Portugal married his half-niece, Isabella of Braganza in 1424.  Through their daughters, they were grandparents of Isabella I, Queen of Castile and Manuel I, King of Portugal.

2. Alfonso V, King of Portugal married his niece, Infanta Joanna of Castile (La Beltraneja) in 1475.  The marriage was later annulled due to consanguinity (but I think this was really more about politics... consanguinity was a frequent cause for annulment).  Joanna was earlier betrothed to her half-uncle, Alfonso, Prince of Asturias (brother of Queen Isabella I of Castile above).  

3. Ferdinand II, King of Naples married his half-aunt, Princess Joanna of Naples in 1496.  

4. Philip II nearly married his half-aunt (and first cousin), Infanta Maria of Portugal (1521-1577) during the 1550s.  

4

Mediatized Noble Families / Etiquette between Reigning/Sovereign Houses and Mediatized Houses

« on: September 02, 2011, 03:11:46 PM »

I was wondering if anyone had any knowledge about etiquette rules in Germany (prior to 1918) surrounding relations between mediatized and sovereign/reigning houses.  For example: Would the wife of a mediatized prince be expected to curtsey before a prince/princess of a reigning family?   Another example: If two princes from reigning and mediatized families were friends, would the mediatized prince have been expected to use the German formal form of "you" - Sie - when speaking to the prince from the reigning family?  Just curious...

5

The Stuarts of Scotland / Re: William III and Prince George of Denmark

« on: May 13, 2011, 08:31:10 PM »

I read somewhere that William at least considered King Friedrich I in Prussia's daughter Luise, who later married Hereditary Prince of Hessen-Kassel.  I think he met her and didn't find her appealing, so it didn't go anywhere.

6

Balkan Royal Families / Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3

« on: February 09, 2011, 12:15:39 PM »

An anecdote about Queen Marie from Daniel Clifton's book Lords, Ladies, and Gentlemen....  Queen Marie came to call on Princess Tatiana Konstantinovna Bagration-Mukhransky (KR's granddaughter) and her children in Belgrade.  Queen Marie was dressed in black mourning clothes.   Princess Tatiana's young daughter, Princess Natasha, hid and mistaking Queen Marie for the angel of death, "pointed to her mother and said, "Take her instead"" (Clifton 46-47) .

7

The Imperial Family / Re: Grand Duke Konstantin (KR) and his family- discussion and pictures, Part II

« on: February 09, 2011, 11:49:44 AM »

Clifton Daniel, President Truman's son-in-law, was a close long-time friend of Princess Natasha.  He described her in his memoir Lord, Ladies, and Gentlemen as a "...tall, angular woman with a husky voice, a beguiling accent not quite identifiable, an unexpected giggle and a gift for gaiety" (Daniel, 41).  She worked for the Yugoslavian government as a secretary during the War and met husband, C. H. Johnston while she was living in Cairo (47).  The couple moved around frequently and weren't always wealthy, but always loved to entertain their friends (48). 

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The Imperial Family / Re: Grand Duke Konstantin (KR) and his family- discussion and pictures, Part II

« on: February 07, 2011, 08:34:32 PM »

True.  According to The Times, King Peter and Queen Alexandra attended her wedding to C. H. Johnston in 1944, so she must have maintained some degree of friendship with the Yugoslavian royals. 

9

The Imperial Family / Re: Grand Duke Konstantin (KR) and his family- discussion and pictures, Part II

« on: February 07, 2011, 04:46:35 PM »

Apologies if this has already been posted.

Link to a photograph of Princess Natalia "Natasha" Bagration-Mukhransky (daughter of Princess Tatiana Konstantinovna and granddaughter of KR)  

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Photographic-Princess-Bagration-Mary-Evans/dp/B004KHVCZ6

Princess Natasha was engaged to Lt. The Hon. Christopher Furness (eldest son of the 1st Viscount Furness) before his heroic death in France in 1940.  He was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross for his actions.  There is a photograph of him at the Esoteric Curiosa blog.  He was apparently considered to be quite a good catch (money and looks).  His father's second wife was the semi-(in)famous Thelma, Viscountess Furness.  

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Mediatized Noble Families / Re: Princess Luise zu Hohenlohe-Oehringen (1867-1945)

« on: November 01, 2010, 11:13:03 PM »

Sorry to bump an old and obscure topic, but I was looking through wedding announcements from The Times I found the marriage of Princess Luise's son Vernon.  I can't help myself but post it, because it contains some (purposeful?) misinformation.  The wedding took place during WWII.

The Times, Monday, Mar 29, 1943; pg. 6; Issue 49506; col B
Mr. W. V. Hope-Johnstone and Miss Cobbold
"The marriage took place on Saturday ... of Mr. William Vernon Hope-Johnstone, Grenadier Guards, only son of Mr. and Mrs. V. W. Hope-Johnstone, of Potchefstroom, South Africa..."

I could be wrong, but I wonder if the reason why he's listed as the son of a couple entirely different from his own parents, is the fact that his parents were divorced and his mother was German.  Perhaps he was adopted, but I wonder if some familial "whitewashing" was happening?  I imagine this might also have happened frequently during the war for anyone with foreign (adversarial) kin.

11

The Hohenzollern / Re: The Saxe-Coburg, desd. of Prince Ferdinand and Antonia Kohary

« on: October 18, 2010, 01:41:16 PM »

Going along with my argument of being in the right place at the right time, being a poor younger son played in Leopold's favor.  I read that Princess Charlotte broke off her engagement with the Prince of Orange, because she would be expected to move to the Netherlands.  She wanted to remain in England where she could support her mother.  Compared to the sleazy Prussian Prince Augustus that Princess Charlotte had been flirting with, Prince Leopold seemed sensible and respectable.  That's how she got the support of her family.

Again my opinion, but I don't think that the Kohary marriage/wealth benefited the other lines of the family very much.  They didn't marry until 1816.  Keep in mind that Prince Kohary (Princess Antonie's father) didn't die until 1826.  I doubt he would have bankrolled his daughter's new relatives.  When Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were courting, there was distrust/negative comments about the how "Catholic" the Coburgs had become.  They were also considered to be mercenary (Leopold and his 50,000 pounds per annum). Duchess Auguste, who came from a devoutly protestant background (her Great Uncle by marriage, Count Zinzendorf, was a major figure in the Moravian Church), felt a need to defend herself about the Kohary marriage saying that she couldn't stop two people in love.

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The Hohenzollern / Re: The Saxe-Coburg, desd. of Prince Ferdinand and Antonia Kohary

« on: October 18, 2010, 12:54:29 PM »

I though it was really more with the marriage of Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich in 1796 to Princess Juliane (Anna Feodorovna) of Saxe-Coburg.  I remember reading that Catherine II thought highly of Duchess of Saxe-Coburg (Auguste).  Three of the daughters went to visit and Catherine liked them all.  The Duchess, like the Landgravine of Darmstadt (mother of Paul's first wife Natalia Alexeievna) and the Hereditary Princess of Baden (mother of Tsarina Elizaveta Alexeievna, seems to have been an intelligent and dynamic woman. 
All I can recall about the Duke (Franz) of Saxe-Coburg was that he was something of an invalid.  The Duke of Saxe-Coburg did have some powerful relatives.  His mother was a Princess of Brunswick-Wolfenbuettel, which made him a nephew by marriage of King Friedrich II of Prussia, a first cousin of King Friedrich Wilhelm II of Prussia, etc.
This following piece is only my opinion.  Catherine II was born a minor princess (Anhalt-Zerbst) herself.  I don't think that great birth was something she looked for when finding brides for her son or her grandsons.
After the separation/divorce of Konstantin and Anna Feodorovna, I read that the Russians disliked the Coburgs.  Prince Leopold was a fairly impoverished military officer.  He was lucky enough to be handsome, eligible, and in the right place at the right time.  Princess Charlotte also had the support of her grandmother Queen Charlotte.

13

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family

« on: October 14, 2010, 09:05:03 PM »

I read a small amount of material about Princess Adelaide of Loewenstein's mother in Letters of Feodora, Princess of Hohenlohe-Langenburg from 1828 to 1827:

Agnes Princess of Loewenstein nee Hohenlohe-Langenburg, died of a fever more than a week after childbirth with "complete presence of mind."  Feodora described her as "very handsome" and amiable.  Constantin Prince of Loewenstein spoke to Feodora about his sadness about the loss of his wife.

14

Italian Royal Families / Question About Picture

« on: February 21, 2010, 03:13:22 PM »

It seems like I should put this question in the Italian Royal Families message board, but Roberto I of Parma's thread is located here.  I found this image on flickr.  It has been tagged as showing Princess Beatrice of Bourbon-Parma, Countess Lucchesi Palli (1879-1939).  I'm skeptical.  I haven't seen enough pictures of her, nor do i know enough about fashion, to be able to make a judgement on this picture.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29482804@N06/3278235323/

Even if does show a "Beatrice de Bourbon," could it be one of the following? 

The Duchess of Ansola (nee Beatrice Harrington) - 1891-1979
Infanta Beatriz of Spain, Princess of Civitelli-Cesi - 1911-1986
Princess Beatrice of Bourbon, Princess of Roviano 1874-1961

Can anyone confirm the identity?  Thanks for your help. 

15

The Hohenzollern / Re: Mecklenburg-Schwerin

« on: February 09, 2010, 06:50:51 PM »

An interesting tidbit from E. H. Cookridge's book From Battenberg to Mountbatten: There was an attempt in 1844 by the Tsar and Tsarina to marry Duchess Louise of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (who later married Prince Hugo Windisch-Graetz) to Prince Alexander of Hesse and the Rhine (who married Princess Battenberg).  She came to Russia with her widowed mother on a visit.  She was described as "unlovely."  Alexander was disinterested.  Her nickname was "Vivi."