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Messages - frohsdorf

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The diamond necklace in question was owned by Marie Antoinette and smuggled out of France in 1791.  In 1796, her jewels were returned to her daughter, Marie Therese, upon the girl's release from the Temple Tower and arrival in Vienna.  Marie Antoinette's jewels (including this necklace) remained in Marie Therese's possession until death on Oct. 19, 1851.  According to the terms of her will (July 1851) her jewels were to be divided in thirds between the Comte de Chambord, the Comtesse de Chambord, and the Duchesse de Parme.  The diamond necklace was left to the Comtesse de Chambord, who, in turn, left it to the Duchesse de Madrid in her will (1884).  Upon the Duchesse de Madrid's death in 1893, the necklace went to her son, Don Jaime.  He lent it to his sisters on occasion (which is why Princess Alicia is wrongfully described as the owner).  When Don Jaime died in 1931, the necklace was left jointly to two of his sisters --- Archduchess Blanca of Austria and Princess Beatrice Massimo.  The sister sold it at Sotheby's in 1937 to an Indian Maharaja.  That family sold it at Christies in 1971 -- at which point it disappeared from history.  Most believe that the 1971 buyers broke it up and sold the diamonds separately.

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Prince Massimo was a direct descendent of Marie Caroline, Duchesse de Berry (1798-1870), of the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, mother of the Comte de Chambord.

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French Royals / Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« on: February 23, 2014, 08:48:48 PM »
She died in Vienna in December 1793....no one seems to know where she is buried!  Can anyone confirm?

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Iberian Royal Families / Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« on: February 23, 2014, 08:38:43 PM »
Looking for information on the last years of Adelgunde, Countess of Bardi.....her husband died in 1905.  Adelgunde was still alive in the 1940s and is buried in Switzerland.  Does anyone have information pertaining to this?  Where is she buried specifically and why is she not with her husband and other Bourbon-Parmas in the crypt at Villa Borbone in Viareggio?

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Italian Royal Families / Re: The Dukes of Modena, Este and Habsburg-Este
« on: February 23, 2014, 08:19:03 PM »
Time to get this thread back on track --- someone went way off on a tangent and started talking about some family that little to do with the House of Austria-Este!!

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Does anyone know where Elias de Bourbon-Parme is buried?  I heard that he has a famiily crypt in a church in Lower Austria, but it's very difficult to locate!

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It's been a few years since I participated in this forum.  It's been very interesting reading all of the posts pertaining to the Bourbon-Parma family and the Comte de Chambord.  Some of the information is misleading, however.  I will be in Viareggio and Lucca this fall to examine the remaining papers of the Comte de Chambord at the State Archives.  They were donated to the City in 1963 by the eldest daughter of Princesse Beatrice de Bourbon-Massimo.  Many of his papers were burned at his death in 1883;  Don Jaime de Bourbon inherited many interesting items and had everything at Schloss Frohsdord inventoried in 1910.  Many valuable items and papers were given to an acquaintance, Viscount Canson, just before WWI (including the handwritten memoir of Duchesse d'Angouleme in the Temple Tower), who took the papers out of Austria.  Later, after Don Jaime's death, the Pricesse Massimo (his sister) tried to get Canson to return everything---to no avail!  And then the Russians burned many things at Frohsdorf in 1945.  So many things are now lost forever.  I'm very interested in the story of the Comte de Chambord's journal----how did Mr. Delorme acquire it?  Where was the original found?

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French Royals / Re: Count and Countess de Chambord
« on: October 03, 2008, 09:56:55 PM »
What does ANY of this recent stuff have to do with the Comtesse de Chambord??

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   The marriage between Don Jaime de Bourbon and his niece, Princesse Fabiola Massimo, was opposed by Princesse Beatrice de Bourbon-Massimo----Jaime's sister and Fabiola's mother---because of the close blood relation of the two.   Beatrice was extremely uneasy about the match and opposed it, according to her youngest daughter, Comtesse Blanca de Wurmbrand-Stuppach (nee Princesse Blanca de Massimo).

    This was a wise decision, obviously.  That branch of the Bourbons had one of the most "concentrated" bloodlines in Europe by that time.  Don Jaime was also closely related to Princesse Mathilde of Bavaria.  His grandmother (Princess Marie Beatrice of Modena) and her grandfather (Prince Ferdinand of Modena) were brother and sister.  The Marie Beatrice and Ferdinand were the result of a marriage between uncle and niece (Duke Francis IV of Modena married his niece).

    Back to Don Jaime----

    He was the heir of the Comtesse de Chambord and and spent much of his time at the Chateau de Frohsdorf in Lower Austria from 1909 until his death in 1931.  His sister, Princesse Beatrice de Bourbon-Massimo, inherited Frohsdorf and all of its contents.  Many things were sold at auction during the 1930s.  Unfortunately, during WWII, the Germans and then the occupying Soviets destroyed or burned the rest.

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Italian Royal Families / Re: The Habsburgs - Grand Dukes of Toscana
« on: August 17, 2006, 09:05:20 PM »
Alice of Bourbon-Parma, Grand Duchess of Tuscany, died at Villa Friedegg in the village of Schwertberg, Austria, in 1935.  She is buried in the village cemetery along with her three unmarried daughters.  The photo on this site does not show Villa Friedegg.  The villa is much smaller---really a large country house, not a chateau or schloss.

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French Royals / Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« on: June 25, 2006, 10:00:07 AM »
My contributions to this subject, the great Marie Therese Charlotte secret and Louis XVII conspiracy,  are over.  

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French Royals / Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« on: June 24, 2006, 11:20:29 PM »
I meant to say "HER very character...."  not "SHE very character...."  

The possibility of a  "secret document" or second will is mentioned in passing in Roger Langeron's (or perhaps Joan Evan's---one or the other, I don't have my papers with me at the moment)  very superficial biography of the Princess.  He does not  back this up with anything and does not provide a source or documentation to support this.

It's this kind of careless statement that creates problems for both the casual reader of French history and the serious researcher.

Based on what I've seen and read, any money Marie Therese paid out was to keep the tittle-tattle and gossips quiet!  Didn't work too well, obviously, as people are STILL gossiping about it over 150 years later.


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French Royals / Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« on: June 24, 2006, 07:30:20 PM »
None of the memoirs of the period, nor any of the serious biographies of Marie Therese Charlotte support a rape in the Temple Tower.  Nor do any documents exist in the French National Archives to support this.  But feel free to gossip about it.

At the time of her death, Marie Therese must have felt certain that her brother was dead, or had died in the Temple Tower in 1795.   She would not have named the Comte de Chambord her heir, otherwise.  Her brother, as the legitimate King of France, would have been named in her will, especially since her money and jewels would also have belonged to him, since it was all that remained of the fortune smuggled out of France by Marie Antoinette in 1791.

She very character, serious and pious,  would not allow her to keep her brother's existance a secret if he, indeed, still lived.

In all likelihood, she paid "hush money" to certain individuals to keep the rumors and imposters quiet.   Naundorff, as you know, hounded her until his death.

The "secret document" in the Vatican is a myth and is a good example of the rumors and outright lies that can gain credibility as "historical fact" over the years.

I would like to know the source, a reliable cited source, with a referral to documentation that I can look at to support  this supposition and rumor that Marie Therese sent a secret document pertaining to the Fate of Louis XVII to the  Vatican.   Not just , "Oh, I heard....."

I have studied Marie Therese's life for many years, have examined original letters and documents in both the French and Austrian national archives, and have also interviewed members of the Bourbon family.  I know what I'm talking about----as others on this site do not.    

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Beatrice of  Austria -Este (1824-1906) was the daughter of Francis IV of Modena and his niece, Maria Beatrice.  Beatrice was the offspring of an incestuous union, although her parents received a papal dispensation from the Pope in order to marry.  She spent her youth at the ducal court in Modena and was, at one time, destined to be the wife of Henri, Comte de Chambord (1820-1883), Head of the House of Bourbon.  However, she refused him and married instead Don Juan, the Carlist Claimant to the throne of Spain.  Meanwhile, her elder sister, Marie Therese, married Chambord.   Beatrice and Don Juan spent their early years in the Hapsburg realm.  They had two sons, Carlos and Alphonso, before separating.  Beatrice never divorced her husband, but they lived apart after their children were born.  Don Juan settled in England and had another ten or so children out of wedlock.  Beatrice, meanwhile developed a mania for religion and eventually entered a convent in Graz, Austria, where she died in 1906.  She's buried there.

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That type of marriage (uncle and niece) today would lead to arrest and imprisonment.  It was before much was known about genetics;  those kind of incestuous marriages ALWAYS required a papal dispensation.  If those incestous unions are so fine and acceptable----I'm wondering why they no longer happen in European royal families.   A papal dispensation does not change FACT----Francis IV of Modena married his NIECE.  That is incest.

It was well-known in French royalist circles that the Comtesse de Chambord was sterile.  Even before her marriage, it was known that she had a difficult puberty and often had painful periods and even missed periods on occasion.  Again, this was before much was known about these things.  Every biography of the Comte de Chambord acknowledges the fact that his wife was sterile.

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