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Messages - gioia

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The Final Chapter / Re: What do you think would have been the RIGHT end?
« on: September 03, 2009, 03:54:36 PM »
I'll play.

I don't think there is any serious argument to be put forth about what should have happened to Nicholas' 5 children. They should have been allowed to leave the country in peace, period.

As to their money, I believe in private property. They should have been able to leave the country in peace with assets sufficient to live out their lives plus been able to take personal property such as gifts. The remainder should have been put into a trust for the Imperial (not royal) Family in exile. In no way should the victorious new government been able to steal items that were not theirs in the first place.

As to a location, they should have been made welcome in Great Britain, and also should have been able to live in Denmark, where they had relatives.

On Nicholas, I disagree with a trial unless all the deposed monarchs and leaders were to be tried in an international court. Nicholas should also have been permitted to leave the country in peace.

I'm just sayin'....

Exactly. The children should have been let free. It was really unreasonalbe that they weren't allowed. They were obviously innocent of any crime.

And I also agree with the private property idea...anything that wasn't *directly* theirs, like very expansive wealth from past generations should have been spread around to ease the effects of the war. And they should definitely have been able to take personal belongings with them.

I think Denmark would have been the best option, but I'm not sure how war-torn England or Denmark were at the time, so they would probably both be good choices.

Here's my general question, though...was Nicholas ever officially found guilty of a crime, not by trial but by observation or some other means? Did he commit an actual *crime*? Because if he did, then he should have been tried, but if not then he probably should have been allowed to leave the country. I'm not really sure though.

So, was he ever previously found of a crime, officially, not by trial?

Having Fun! / Re: More Romanov Dreams?
« on: August 25, 2009, 03:55:25 PM »
Wow, that's really strange. Kind of funny though :D

The Final Chapter / Re: What do you think would have been the RIGHT end?
« on: August 25, 2009, 03:46:02 PM »
Reading your last post, I have thought of a question but I don't know if this has ever been asked/analyzed before.

Could it be that the Emperor had the "Stockholms Syndrome"? This is a condition under which specifically, kidnap victims sympathize with their captors.  The name comes from such a situation that took place in Stockholm, Sweden, about 50 years ago, when psychologists interviewed people that had been kidnapped, and who showed sympathy for their captors.  Patricia Hearst suffered the same.

It is known that if anything, the Emperor didn't quite have a strong character at all.  Perhaps at some point he had some sort of sympathy for his captors, which would have prevented him from making certain decisions.  He was a great believer in fate as well, so perhaps these two traits coincided at the wrong time in his life, with the known results.

Those of us who believe in God, always think that any circumstances, however bad they may be, are always the best. It is hard to justify how being killed before dawn in Siberia would have been the best possible outcome for the IF, but then, we can only guess. Some lines of thought would even venture to say, that even though the IF were killed by Godless communists, they were doing God's will. 

I've suspected that myself.

Having Fun! / Re: More Romanov Dreams?
« on: August 23, 2009, 05:34:56 PM »
What was your dream? I am intrigued! :D

The Final Chapter / Re: What do you think would have been the RIGHT end?
« on: August 23, 2009, 05:33:19 PM »
Thats a good fact. I often wondered why Alix and Nicky didn't try to send their children away to be safe till the situation became clear. Not abroad, it would have been enough to send them to crimea to the rest of the family. I would have done so even I am sure that the children did not want to leave their parents. But if I had been the mother the health of my children would be more important for me than anything else. Even if I don't know what will happen. But wasn't the situation not serious enough after abdication and arrest in Alexander Palace??? Could NA really not imagine what COULD happen? Did they ever try to send the children away at least a while? I know, that they did not want to be parted, but wasn't it more important to save than to stay together? Very sad :(

I don't know how much Nicholas could have suspected or guessed...didn't he think they would probably try to get rid of him, but he hoped they'd let Alix and the children go?

The Final Chapter / Re: What do you think would have been the RIGHT end?
« on: August 21, 2009, 05:00:31 PM »
Many countries were proposed as options for exile but either the goverment didn't want to take them in like England and France, or the IF felt that it would be going over to the enemy as it was with Germany. The Scandinavian countries would have been good

Yes, exactly. I've always wondered why they didn't go to one of the Scandanavian countries? Or to England...there were relatives there and I don't see why the government would prevent a move to Enlgand.
About Italy...did they have any relations there? Was it stable at the time?

The Final Chapter / Re: What do you think would have been the RIGHT end?
« on: August 19, 2009, 06:56:21 PM »
I think that would have made a lot of sense. They would have been safe, and wouldn't have been a "disruption" or distraction/worry to the new govt in Russia. I wonder why they didn't do that? Do you know if Nicholas and Alexandra tried to make some sort of deal so they could get sent to safety?

The Final Chapter / Re: Granduchesses' Roles and Duties in Exile
« on: August 19, 2009, 04:13:51 PM »
I'm surprised they were even allowed to bathe daily in Yekaterinberg. Apparently it kind of tapered off towards the end?
Exactly how much restriction was put on that kind of thing?

The Final Chapter / What do you think would have been the RIGHT end?
« on: August 19, 2009, 04:04:48 PM »
Russia was definitely not a good country when ruled by Nicholas Alexandrovich, and, had he been more competent as a ruler, a lot of unnecessary violence in the Revolution could have been averted. Basically, there were a lot of bad decisions he made that, had they not been made, a lot of bad things wouldn't have happened--though some of it was inevitable. I don't think the course of action taken by the executioners/communist leaders was exactly right. Here is what I think should have happened, to be totally fair and more morally right. Had I known that my plan would work out, with as little protest as possible, I would-

1. Give Nicholas II a proper trial, and take the DECIDED-BY-JURY course of action (whether it was death penalty, imprisonment, or whatever). If the jury found him deserving of one of those punishments, it should be carried out. But it should be taken into account how unrealistic it was that one man could rule such a vast country as Russia in that particular period. Basically, he needed a FAIR TRIAL.

2.  Set a fine for the family remaining, use those funds to sort of patch up as much of the war cause as possible, leave enough for the family to live on and be ok.

3. I would NOT execute the Grand Duchesses or Alexei Nikolaevich. Though many, many women and children were killed in the Revolution, killing more INNOCENT PEOPLE would not do any good for anyone. Two wrongs don't make a right, and this type of killing is pure evil. Answering evil with more evil is...ridiculous and it doesn't make any sense. The women and children killed elsewhere in the war had done NOTHING deserving death, and neither did the Royal children.

4. Perhaps relocate the remaining family members to another part of Russia, or another country, and have them set up their lives there.

I'm not sure how well this plan is set up, how it would have worked out, or if all the events prior to it would have allowed it to be carried out. But this is what I would have done is I knew it would work and if it made total sense.

What would you have done (corresponding with these four topics--

-Nicholas II's fate
-Management of the family's wealth, what else would you have done about the war with it, etc
-The fates of the Grand Duchesses and the Heir
-Final living place/where would you have sent the remaining  Royal Family

Thanks to anyone who replies. :)

Welcome New Users! Read 1st please. / Re: How do I get an icon?
« on: August 19, 2009, 03:34:40 PM »
Thanks so much :)

Welcome New Users! Read 1st please. / How do I get an icon?
« on: August 16, 2009, 08:14:41 AM »
I mean, the little pictures next to your name. I'm very new at the forum, and I want an icon, but I don't know do to go about it.
Thank you :). Just some instructions will do.

Tatiana Nicholaievna / What makes her so different?
« on: August 16, 2009, 08:07:33 AM »
I love all of OTMA, but something about Tatiana has always interested me. I don't know if it's because she's sort of mysterious, or something about her character, or what she looks like...but she's very compelling, don't you agree?
What, exactly, do you think makes her look so different, and "exotic"? And what makes her so interesting?
Thanks :)

Having Fun! / Re: Art by Romanov fans III
« on: August 15, 2009, 02:14:38 PM »
This is a picture I edited, of Olga Nikolaevna. :)

And here's one of Tatiana Nikolaevna, also edited.

Having Fun! / More Romanov Dreams?
« on: August 15, 2009, 02:11:14 PM »
I've been reading the other Romanov dream boards, and I think it would be nice to get a new one going! :) What have your Romanov dreams been like?

I've had two--the first one started out in a little gift shop by the ocean, with knickknacks and jewellery inside, shirts, etc. My sister and I were looking at necklaces, and we saw OTMAA and Nicholas come in, and they started looking at jewellery in another part of the shop. They were all wearing wide-brimmed white hats and they, but nothing else in the store, were black-and-white.

My other dream-- I was behind the executioners in the Ipatiev house, and the doors were closed. There were two groups of a lot of soldiers in front of each door, and Yurovsky was off to the side (light brown or blonde hair). One of the men would propel an orange flower or a piece of bread/cake/paper out of his gun to show that their group was ready for the door to be opened. Then the other group did that. The doors opened and they started shooting, though it was just the family and no servants in the room. They all looked like their pictures, N and A died. OTMA ran out of the room screaming, they got by the soldiers really easily. It was like I was behind them and they ran down this hall, which was dark with a kind of brownish thing about it. There were some small closets in the walls. They crouched in this tiny, narrow hallway, then ran into a large room where it was on fire, and this large, extremely ugly person had Alexei, and was trying to pull off his arms and legs or something. The girls tried to get Alexei away from the person, but he was already dead. They started screaming again, ran over to these school desks and flipped the flat surface parts off by banging on them a few times, then ran off to the side, and strangely, the sound and picture just faded out. There was this white "Russian" word on the black surface all of a sudden with an "s" at the beginning and a "zh" sound, and I think an "ih". The dream ended.

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