Messages

1

French Royals / Jacques Marie Rouzet - Husband of Louise Marie Adélaïde de Bourbon-Penthiévre

« on: May 01, 2013, 10:13:30 AM »

Hello Fellow Writers,

I hope there is someone amongst you who may be familiar with the case of the relationship between the Count of Folmont, Jacques-Marie Rouzet and the Duchess of Orléans Louise Marie Adélaïde de Bourbon-Penthiévre, the heiress of the colossal fortune of the Penthièvres and the mother of King Louis Philippe I.
I'm particularly interested in finding the possible descendents of Jacques-Marie Rouzet living today as I have come across information that point to the fact the he has had offspring by Marie Hébrard, 9 in total.
As you may know Jacques Marie Rouzet becomes the protector and romantic partner of the french princess, the Duchess-Widow of Orléans. There are some references to a possible marriage around 1795 when she was reliesed from arrest after the influence of his lover Jacques, a deputy in that time.
What interests me is to find where this references to a marriage find their grounds. Does anyone know if there is a marriage certificate found or other sources, even if indirect?
I have grounds to believe that a child is born from this relationship and this child has accompanied the mother and father to exile in Spain - first Sarrià, then Figueras and then Mahon of the Baleares Ils. In 1809 the later to become king Louis Philippe I has come to get her mother for his wedding in Palermo where she stayed for two years and she returned to Mahon after her relationship to her son has severely degraded. We can support Louis Philippe was not supportive and rather combative against this relationship as he has done quite a lot to hide related facts and wipe references to it. The journal that the Duchess of Bourbon and sister-in-law, Bathilde de Bourbon has written about the captivity and life in exile of Adélaïde's was thought missing after it has passed through Louis's hands but later found (all in one piece?) ; the article in "Biographie Universelle" of François Xavier de Feller, pags. 656/657, is completely missing any reference to the relationship. The odd fact is explained if you bare in mind the work was published in 1838 (Louis Philippe was already seating on the throne).
Does anyone have any information about this relationship other that we can find on the internet.
Most importantly is there any information about existing descendents from the male line of Jacques-Marie Rouzet and Marie Hebrard?
Many thanks,
Alexandre

2

French Royals / Re: Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History

« on: March 28, 2011, 07:55:29 AM »

Dear Tybalt,

Yes, when Bathilde was exiled to Spain she was accompanied by her daughter Adelaïde-Victoire who she never publicly mothered.
While in Sarrià Bathilde did a series of watercolours and paintings of life in Catalunya and there is one very curious of a baby in his cradle, dated from 1798 – follow this link: http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/03903/DBFB2D646E0E6A6D51718EE44740424C87ECA530.html?query=europeana_uri%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.europeana.eu%2Fresolve%2Frecord%2F03903%2F120374426A5E25063EC3BFDB288AE62D92994E21%22&start=4&startPage=1&pageId=brd&view=table#
Well, Bathilde is knowned for having painted her son Antoine, Duke of Enghien when he was a child.
By the date we know that the child in the painting is not her grand-daughter. So who might that be? It could be many people but apparently it is not the son of a servant because the scene takes place in the living-room.
Anyway this is what I think has happened: Bathilde was escorted by a young gendarme and between them a relationship has sprung. This is reported in many sources and also the relationship raised some sort of scandal, maybe because of the age difference or the social class difference but the truth is that this relationship survived for decades and they reunited in Paris after her return to the city in 1814.
A child was born, a male who she called Joaquin (port. Joaquim), in reference to the white column in Solomon’s Temple which the French-Masons to whom Bathilde was a Grand-Maîtraise believed to mean the force and the will of God. This is what this child was, a survivor against all odds, son of a 47 year old woman in exile.
This son lived with her until 1908, year when the French army invaded Catalunya and she had to let her son go for security reasons. She must have bared in mind the hatred felt by Napolean against her family, hatred that already had killed her first son by the hands of the Emperor so she parted from her son who ended up in Portugal where the French-Masonry was quite active.
We must not forget some facts: this child was a problem to the ruling house of Orléans as Bathilde was still married to the Prince of Condé and if he was mothered by Bathilde he would be presumed by law son of Henry, Prince of Condé, owner of a vast estate coveted by the Orléans. Eventually the fortune became to a son of King Louis Philippe but not after a lot of pressure to the Prince who disliked the Orléans family. In addition King Louis Philippe went in to great lengths to obliterate the references to the gendarme having destroyed his military records and his aunt Bathilde’s journals and diaries.
In fact this child's life was threatened while in France or claiming his motherhood of Bathilde.
Thank you for reading and I hope someone find some facts that might shed some light in to this amazing story.
Thank you for reading!

3

French Royals / Re: King Louis Philippe and his family

« on: November 30, 2010, 09:59:35 AM »

Dear All,

is any of you aware if the Orléans family's ADN has ever been tested? I'm particularly interested in Phillipe Égalité, his sister Louise Marie Thérèse Bathilde or Louis Phillipe I or his siblings's DNA.
If a profile of any of this persons is available this would be an important aid to the work I'm developing for sometime.
I know that the presumable blood of King Louis XVI has been tested and apparently it matches on the physical type of person we know he was but I would rather have the Orléans part of the family.
Many, many thanks,
Alexandre

4

French Royals / Re: Philippe Egalite and Orleans

« on: November 17, 2010, 07:35:08 AM »

Dear All,

is any of you aware if the Orléans family's ADN has ever been tested? I'm particularly interested in Phillipe Égalité, his sister Louise Marie Thérèse Bathilde or Louis Phillipe I or his siblings's DNA.
If a profile of any of this persons is available this would be an important aid to the work I'm developing for sometime.
I know that the presumable blood of King Louis XVI has been tested and apparently it matches on the physical type of person we know he was but I would rather have the Orléans part of the family.
Many, many thanks,
Alexandre

5

French Royals / Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti

« on: September 04, 2010, 12:47:44 PM »

I now have a further question about Madame de Bourbon Louise Marie Bathilde. On the journey to her exile in Spain she was escorted by a 27 year old gendarme to whom she became attached and there are references of her somewhat irregular relationship (age difference, status, he was her keeper so to say). She was 47 but I have the feeling that despite her age, she might have conceived a child from this young man. This child must have obviously been hidden from the general public as she did, decades earlier with her illegitimate daughter who she never mothered publicly. Also this child didn´t return to France with her mother. Bathilde's nephew, King Louis Philippe I, burnt her diary and some letters so the information about this eventual child would be lost, as he also destroyed the military file on this young man which is quite extreme, don't you think?. The couple - Bathilde and the young gendarme got together when she returned to France but he died long before her, stricken by a disease.
Have anyone read about this possibility or came across the same suspicion? I believe it is quite a mind challenging theory but altogether very possible.
Thanks!

6

French Royals / Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti

« on: September 04, 2010, 12:10:28 PM »

Dear CountessKate, Dear Trentk80,

Thank you so much for your replies. They are most useful I'm sure.
You two were absolutely brilliant! Thanks a lot!
Regards from Lisbon
Alex

7

French Royals / Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti

« on: September 02, 2010, 09:32:34 AM »

Dear readers,

you must be familiar with Madame de Bourbon Louise Marie Thérèse Bathilde d'Órléans, sister of Philippe Égalitè. She married the Prince de Condé. What is most remarkable about this person is her biography. Please have a look at Wikipedia and you will find out more about her at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathilde_d%27Orl%C3%A9ans

What I'm most interested to know is exactly to where was she exiled, along with her daughter and sister-in-law.
The references mention some place near Barcelona but apparently not really Barcelona. Any idea? That would be very important for me so thank you so much if you can help me.

Alex

8

French Royals / Re: Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History

« on: August 10, 2010, 10:26:28 AM »

Dear Tybalt,

I  must thank you again for your precious help. I believe you must be very close, not so much of the person himself but the principle behind it. What I mean is apparently most royals have issued illegitimate offspring and the identity of some of those are buried in history.
Do you have any knowledge of a similar situation (illegitimate children) of this following persons:

Louis Joseph de Bourbon, prince de Condé (13 April 1756 - 30 August 1830)

Louise Marie Thérèse Bathilde d'Orléans, princesse de Condé (Saint-Cloud, July 9 1750 - Paris, January 10 1822) – she had an illegitimate daughter. Do you know what has became of her after her mother died? Did she have other illegitimate offspring being that his nephew Louis-Philippe, tried to give an air of respectability to her bohemian lifestyle by burning both the manuscript of her memoirs and a file on her young police officer located in the war archives.

The reason I'm insisting on these branch of the family, Condé, is related to the fact that I have a feeling that the person I'm after is related somehow to this family.
The Condé were related to the Carnations and I know a family who call themselves "Cravo" which means carnation in Portuguese and I'm intrigued to find a connection.

Again many thanks and regards from hot Lisbon,
AlexaofLisbon

9

French Royals / Re: Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History

« on: August 07, 2010, 11:37:01 AM »

Dear Tybalt,

Thank you for your reply. Most appreciated!
Louis-François Bourbon-Conti was exiled to Spain where he died. Nevertheless I'm interested in any Bourbon survivor that history can not really confirm the final whereabouts - that have vanished from records - or someone or some persons whose records are incorrect, undetermined, suspicious or impossible to prove.
In case you have an idea or know of an expert on the subject I would be very obliged to have some contact.
Many Thanks,
AlexofLisbon

10

French Royals / Re: Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History

« on: August 06, 2010, 07:10:50 AM »

Apparently no has ever heard of this subject or is not interested.
I totally understand that not having romantic pictures to show is not as interesting as having some.
In case you could recommend an expert in French Revolution, the society of those days and has information about the Royal emigrants please pass me down the contact: I would be most obliged. This information will be most useful for an investigation to a potential romance.

11

French Royals / Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History

« on: August 03, 2010, 12:48:02 PM »

Dear co-readers,
This is the first time I have posted a message which is more like a question I hope finds itself some answers.
Does anyone ever heard about a french Bourbon, legitimate, illegitimate, from any family line - can even be a Orléans line - that has abandoned France at some point (maybe during the total ban the whole family suffered in 1797 by the Directoire) and that his/her final destination has never been confirmed or the correspondent known biography leaves suspicion that the official time of death is wrong because the whereabouts and fate is in fact unknown?
If yes has Portugal been the destination of this person/persons?
Many thanks,
AlexofLisbon