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Messages - Rebecca

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Tack! Jag har alltid funderat över detta! I vissa böcker står det storfurstinna i andra storhertiginna. Jag har sagt storhertiginna sedan jag var liten. Det beror nog på att de säger storhertiginna i den tecknade filmen Anastasia. Tack för att du rättade mig! :)

Inget att tacka för. :-) Jag har också sett att det i några böcker står storhertiginna, men jag tror att det helt enkelt beror på ett översättningsfel. Hur som helst så är det ju inte direkt livsavgörande. ;-)

The names in Swedish:

Olga: Olga
Tatiana: Tatjana
Maria: Maria
Anastasia: Anastasia
Alexandra: Alexandra
Nicholas: Nikolaus
Elizabeth: Elisabet
Irina: Irene
Anna: Anna

Note: Nikolaus is a rather old form of the name, but is generally used for the Russian emperors. Nikolaus I, Nikolaus II, storfurst Nikolaus etc. More common versions of the name in Swedish are Nils and Niklas. But nobody would ever say Nils I or Niklas II. :-D

In Swedish;

Grand duchess: Storhertiginna
Austria: Österike


Grand duchess: Storfurstinna for the Russian title, storhertiginna otherwise.
Austria: Österrike

Mediatized Noble Families / Re: Thurn und Taxis, the elder line
« on: March 15, 2009, 10:24:14 AM »
I have a question regarding the house laws of the Thurn und Taxis-family. I hope somebody can clarify this...

According to the GHdA (Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels) these three marriages were morganatic: prince Alexander's (1906-1992) to countess Marie Valerie von Mazzuchelli, prince Hugo's (1916-1975) to countess Beatrice von Bethusy-Huc, and prince Max Emanuel's (1935-) to countess Anna Maria von Pocci.

But earlier, the marriage between Fürst Maximilian Karl (1802-1871) and baroness Wilhelmine von Dörnberg was apparently considered equal. As were the marriage of prince Theodor (1834-1876) to baroness Melanie von Seckendorff. The marriage between prince Egon (1832-1892) and Viktoria Edelspacher de Gyoryok also seems to have been considered as equal. Lots of other Thurn und Taxis princes married countesses, but these marriages were not considered morganatic. Why this inconsistency? Were the house laws sharpened at some time or did something else happen, which made marriages to baronesses equal but marriages to certain countesses not?

I know very little about the house laws of the Thurn und Taxis-family, if there are any - but apparently there are since the three mentioned marriages seem to be considered as morganatic. Like I said, maybe someone can clarify this? :-)

Mediatized Noble Families / Re: Thurn und Taxis, the elder line
« on: January 21, 2009, 07:09:43 AM »
Thanks ! It is clear to me now. Did the couple had children ?

Prince Raphael Rainer and princess Margarete had one son, prince Max Emanuel, born 1935. Prince Max Emanuel has two sons from his second, morganatic, marriage, to a Christa Heinle. Both sons are in marrying age, but I have no information on whether they are married or not. All sources I have seen list them both as unmarried.

any one know where in Rome Queen Viktoria died?

She died at Villa Svezia in Rome.

Queen Josefina, née princess Josephine of Leuchtenberg, was also a Vasa descendant, and she was married to Oscar I. So the Vasa connection in the Bernadotte genealogy goes further back than the marriage between Victoria of Baden and Gustav V.

She is 84 years old, so maybe it would be a good deed to let her dream... ;-)

She is not really a princess. Her maiden name was Lindberg. She married count Sigvard Bernadotte af Wisborg in 1961, as his third wife (she had also been married previously). Sigvard was born 1907 as the second son of prince Gustaf Adolf and his wife princess Margareta, née princess Margaret of Connaught. Gustaf Adolf later became king, as Gustaf VI Adolf. Sigvard lost his princely title in 1934 when he married his first wife, a German lady by the name of Erika Patzek. They later divorced. Some time after marrying Marianne, Sigvard began a struggle to have his princely title restored but it was unsuccessful.

her daughter was Anne Marie E de D 1922-dsp 1984 she married 1) 1944, Philippe Cerf. 2) 1958 pierre Saville

Maybe they had two daughters? I remember reading somewhere, although I do not remember where (which is sadly too often the case with me; I read a lot and some facts from here and there stick in my mind but then I can not remember where I read them), about a daughter named Hélène.

I made a quick search on the internet (I know, not the most reliable source) and found this site:;i=294784
Apparently this daughter had issue.

I do not know how reliable this site is, though.

Princess Natalija secondly married, in England, count Gaston Errembault de Dudzeele (1877-1961). They had a daughter together, Hélène (1921-2006), but I am afraid that this is all I know.  :-[

Mediatized Noble Families / Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
« on: November 04, 2007, 04:07:50 AM »

I just found some very nice CDVs on ebay showing Lucia Princess zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg. I had a look at Paul Theroff's Online Gotha and found out that she was the only child of Emil and his first wife Pulcheria Princess Cantacuzène. Her mother died when she was only six years old. Her father's second marriage to Camilla Stefanska in 1868 was a morganatic one. They must have had issue, any information?

Hello Marie Charlotte,

Prince Emil zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg and his second wife Camilla, née Stefańska, had three sons (Ludwig, Wilhelm and Emil). They received the title Freiherr von Kleydorff. Interestingly, Freiherr Ludwig von Kleydorff's elder daughter, Lucy von Kleydorff (1898-1952) married secondly her relative prince Wolfgang zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg.

Scandanavian Royal Families / Re: Books on Swedish Royals
« on: May 09, 2007, 10:33:08 PM »
Not to forget Gustav II Adolf  by Sverker Oredsson. It was supposed to be published late last year, but due to some delay it was published in March. It is in Swedish, and has ISBN 917353157X (alt. 9789173531573). The publisher is Bokförlaget Atlantis.


It makes for little difference in terms of the crimes, but I was not aware that the euthanasia programs were going in the 1930s. The data i have seen indicates these killings start in late 1939 after war began and the populaiton was focused away from most things other than war.

You are right, my mistake, I am sorry. I wrote somewhat hasty.  :-[ (And it is very late here, but that is no excuse.) However, there was a massive propaganda campaign for what the nazis called euthanasia throughout the 1930's, as well as 100 000's of people with "defects" being sterilised, which is an atrocity in itself (although the nazis were not the only ones conducting such sterilisations).

Thank you very much for posting this picture, Linnea! :) So she was from the baronial line of the Swedish Hamiltons after all... I looked in my notes and her mother was baronesse (friherrinnan) Louise Ridderstolpe. Josephine married a baron Rudbeck and died in 1861, aged 27. If the dating 1847 is correct on the picture, it means she was only 13 years old on it.

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