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Topics - Prince_Lieven

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The Windsors / King George V
« on: June 15, 2007, 01:43:00 PM »
Hey everyone, I was just wondering if anyone new anything more about this - I've often read that George V was highly critical of his government's brutal policies in Ireland in the early 1920s, and that he disapproved of the antics of the para-military 'Black and Tans' but does anyone know anything more specific about his views? I've never read a biography of George, is anything about this mentioned in it? Thanks!  :)

The Windsors / Siblings of King George III
« on: December 24, 2006, 02:15:06 PM »
Princess Augusta (1737-1813) was always styled 'Lady Augusta' during her father's life, but I've no idea why. Her birth was traumatic. Her father, the Prince of Wales, was determined to spite his parents no matter what, and resented their wish that the birth take place with them in Hampton Court. So when his wife went into labour, he had her taken half way across the city screaming in agony to St James's where Augusta was born. Her godparents were George II, Queen Caroline and the Princess of Wales's mother, the Dowager Duchess of Saxe-Gotha.

Princess Elizabeth's (1740-1759) godparents were the Margrave of Brandenburg-Ansbach, Queen Sophia Magdalena of Denmark and the Duchess of Saxe-Gotha (the sister-in-law of the Princess of Wales).

Princess Louisa's (1759-1768) godparents were Prince Frederick of Hesse-Kassel, Queen Louisa of Denmark (her aunt) and the Princess of Orange (her aunt Anne, nee the Princess Royal).

Princess Caroline Matilda's (1751-1775) godparents were Prince George (later George III, her eldest brother), Princess Caroline (her aunt, George II's daughter) and Princess Augusta (her eldest sister).

1.Augusta (1737-1813) m. Karl II (Wilhelm Ferdinand?) of Brauschweig-Wolf.

Not unlike her daughter Caroline in personality, she was mischeivous and told stories of sharing a bed with her brother George III when they were children, and claiming he wet the bed. The family constantly suspected her marriage was unhappy, but she never made any complaints about it. She fled to England during the Napoleonic Wars, and was reunited with her brother George after 36 years. She was the only one of his siblings to achieve anything approaching his great age.

Carolina Mathilde (1751-1775) m. King Christian VII of Denmark

Usually called Caroline Matilda, she was her father's posthumous child. Her marriage to her cousin (his mother was Louisa, George II's daughter) was a disaster, as is well known. It is widely believed that her second child, Luise, was fathered not by her husband but by her lover, Count Streunsee. She died in exile in Germany after the failure of her marriage.

The Windsors / King George II and his family
« on: December 24, 2006, 01:53:33 PM »
John van der Kiste's book 'Georgian Princesses' is a good source of info on these ladies.

1. Anna (1709-1759) m. Prince William IV of Orange-Nassau

She was intelligent but extremely bossy. When her mother, Queen Caroline, found out that Anna (or Anne) had been forcing her maid to read aloud to her for hour's on end, she made her daughter do the same till Anna had learned her lesson! Her husband, William IV, was very ugly, but she said she'd marry him even if he was a baboon. Her father said 'Well, there is baboon enough for you'.

2. Amelia (1711-1786)

She was the family flirt. Her family called her 'Emily'. She was George III's favourite aunt and his children visited her often. He was annoyed, however, to find she left all her money to the children of her sister Mary.

4.Mary (1723-1772) m. Friedrich II of Hessen-Cassel

There was some scandal with her husband . . . he abandoned her or something and she had to raise their children alone. I'm afraid I can't remember the details!

5.Louise (1723-1766) m. King Frederick V of Denmark

Louise (or Louisa) was supposedly the only one of the daughter to inherit Queen Caroline's looks and quick mind. She was a popular queen of Denmark, as far as I know.

The Stuarts of Scotland / Stuart Political Questions
« on: November 30, 2006, 07:35:14 AM »
Sorry for the rather vague title of this thread, but I didn't know what else to call it. There are one or two points about Stuart politics I'd like explained, if possible.

Firstly, I've often read about Stuart monarchs 'proroguing' parliament. As far as I know, the difference between this and dissolving parliament is that after a dissolution, a general election must be called before parliament meets again. 'Proroguing' parliament means 'closing' a 'session' of parliament, I think. But I'm curious - for how long could parliament be progrogued? I read that Charles II prorogued it five times to prevent discussion of the exclusion bill - can I assume, then, that the King or Queen (up till, say William and Mary's time) could close a session of parliament whenever they wanted? And I know a big issue about dissolving parliament was that a monarch had to have money to do it - when parliament was prorogued, were the monarch's funds cut off too?

Just one other thing - when William and Mary were proclaimed, it was decided 'the sole and full exercise of the regal power be only in and executed by the said Prince of Orange in the names of the said Prince and Princess during their joint lives.' If William had predeceased Mary, what would have happened? Would the 'regal power' have then been vested in her?


Books about the Romanovs and Imperial Russia / Books by Richard Hough
« on: November 19, 2006, 08:58:55 AM »
Does anyone know this author? I found some of his books online - 'Louis and Victoria: the First Mountbattens', 'Edward and Alexandra: their public and private lives' and 'Born Royal' (I think it's about George V's children).

Has anyone read these books? Are they worth buying? Thanks!

The Tudors / Reminder of the rules!
« on: November 18, 2006, 01:18:13 PM »
Hey everyone.  :) Kim and I just wanted to remind everyone that all posts made on the board (except those in a humourous context, or ones which neccessitate a brief 'yes' or 'no' reply, like on the 'era person' thread) should as much as possible contribute to the discussion; that is to say, there's no point in making a posts that's a re-hash of one of your earlier posts, nor is it a valid contribution to repeat something someone else said, with slightly different wording. Also, a summary of previous posts isn't the same as a legitimate contribution.


The Stuarts of Scotland / Name that Stuart era person!
« on: November 02, 2006, 08:32:44 AM »
Since this type of thread is so popular on the Tudor board, maybe we could try it out here too?

This is an unfinished portrait of . . .

The Tudors / Yorkist Princesses
« on: October 22, 2006, 07:52:16 AM »
Hey everyone, I thought this could be an interesting topic, about Edward IV's sisters and daughters (except Elizabeth of York, since she has her own thread).

Edward IV's sisters were:
  • Anne (1439-1476). She married firstly Henry Holland, Duke of Exeter (1430-1473), himself a Plantagenet descendant. They had one daughter, Anne Holland (1455-1475), who was the first wife of Elizabeth Woodville's son, Thomas Grey. The Duke and Duchess of Exeter were divorced in 1472, and Anne married Sir Thomas St Leger (ex.1483), with whom she also had a daughter, another Anne (1476-1526). Anne St Leger married George Manners, Lord de Ros, and was ancestress of the Earls of Rutland.
  • Elizabeth (1444-c.1503). She married John de la Pole (1442-c.1491), Duke of Suffolk, who had been married at a very young age to Margaret Beaufort. Their children were:
    -Catherine (1461-1523), married William, Lord Stourton.
    -John, Earl of Lincoln (1462-1487, killed at Battle of Stoke). Richard III designated John as his heir. John married Margaret Fitzalan.
    -Elizabeth (1466-1489). She married Henry Lovell, Baron Morley.
    -Edmund, Earl of Suffolk (1471-ex. 1513). He married Margaret Scrope.
    -Richard, 'the White Rose' (killed at Pavia, 1525).
    -Humphrey, a priest (1474-1513).
    -William (1478-1539). He married Katherine Stourton.
    -Edward, Archdeacon of Richmond (d. 1485).
    -Dorothy (d. unmarried).
  • Margaret (14461503). The Tudors called her 'Aunt to all the Pretenders'. She married Charles the Bold, Duke of Burgundy (1433-1477).
  • Ursula (1455).

Edward IV's younger daughters were:
  • Mary (1467-1482). Apparently there were plans for her to marry John of Denmark, Norway and Sweden.
  • Cecily (1469-1507). She had been betrothed to the future James IV, and to his uncle the Duke of Albany, but when Henry VII became king she was forced to marry his uncle John Welles, Lord Welles. They had two daughters who died young, and when Welles died too in 1499, Cecily married Thomas Kyme without the King's permission. She was banished from court, and it took special intervention from Margaret Beaufort to return her to favour. She carried Arthur Tudor at his christening, attended Elizabeth of York at her coronation, and carried Katherine of Aragon's train when she married Arthur. Wikipedia says there is a record of her lending money to her sister the Queen in 1502. Thomas More described her as 'not so fortunate as fair'.
  • Margaret (April-December 1472).
  • Anne (1475-1511). In 1479, it was agreed that she would marry Philip the Handsome of Austria, but of course the marriage never happened. In 1494, she instead married Thomas Howard, Earl of Surrey (1473-1554). They had no surviving children, and he later married Elizabeth Stafford.
  • Catherine (1479-1527). She was supposed to marry Katherine of Aragon's brother Juan, but negotiations were still in progress when her father died. Henry VII also negotiated an agreement with Scotland, whereby Catherine would marry the Duke of Ross, son of James III, her mother Elizabeth Woodville was marry James III himself, and another of Catherine's sisters would marry the future James IV. However, James III died in 1488 and James IV didn't pursue the agreement. She ended up marrying William Courtenay, Earl of Devon (1475-1511) and had three children:
    -Edward (1497-1502).
    -Henry, Marquess of Exeter (1498-1539). Married Gertrude Blount.
    -Margaret (1500-1526). She married Henry Somerset, Earl of Worchester.
    Her husband William was attainted in 1504 and thus not able to succeed his father as Earl of Devon. Henry VIII gave him the title in 1511 though. Catherine seems to have been a favourite aunt of Henry VIII - she was godmother to Mary I, and her son Henry Courtenay was favoured by Henry until 1539. Henry VIII also apparently 'brought her into sure estate' when she was in financial trouble.
  • Bridget (1480-1517). She became a nun, and maintained a correspondance with her sister the Queen, which I think is strange, since they probably barely new each other.

Most of these women are complete enigmas to me. Was the Duchess of Exeter's divorce a scandal? What were the grounds for divorce? Who was Thomas St Leger?

Was the Duchess of Suffolk's later life, under the Tudors, financially comfortable? Was she distrusted because Richard III had made her son his heir?

I wonder how Elizabeth of York's relations with her sisters were, especially Cecily, so close to her in age. It's a testement to Henry VII's meaness that the Queen (the Queen mind!) was forced to borrow money from her younger sister! And what was Cecily's incentive for marrying Kyme? Love, maybe, or just a desire to escape Henry's court.

Why was Henry VIII so fond of his aunt Catherine? I wonder if she spent much time at his court. Where she or her sisters ever referred to as 'princess' during the Tudor regime?

So many unanswered questions!

The Tudors / Treaty of Greenwich
« on: October 21, 2006, 12:52:54 PM »
Does anyone know the exact provisions of the Treaty of Greenwich, signed between England and Scotland? I know it provided for the future marriage between Mary Queen of Scots and Prince Edward, and that Mary would go to England aged 10 for the marriage. Did the treaty have any other clauses? Did it say that Edward would be King of Scots after the marriage? Would Henry have been Regent of Scotland?

The Stuarts of Scotland / MOVED: Bess of Hardwick
« on: September 23, 2006, 07:27:01 AM »
This topic has been moved to the Tudor Board.,8102.0.html

The Tudors / Henry Brandon, Earl of Lincoln
« on: September 07, 2006, 04:31:54 PM »
Hey everyone, I was browsing around on this site and I was surprised to see that the author is of the opinion that Mary Rose and Charles Brandon had two sons called Henry.


He was born in 1516 and died about 1520/22.


He was born around 1520/22 and he died in 1534. He was created Earl of Lincoln on June 18, 1525. There seem most likely to have been two boys both named Henry. The two have often been listed as one boy who was born in 1516 and who died in 1534. There is strong evidence that there were instead two boys by the name of Henry."

Anyone heard this before?

The Tudors / Plantagenet Bastards
« on: September 03, 2006, 12:46:20 PM »
Here's a thread for the (many) bastard children of Plantagenet monarchs, including those of Henry II's father Geoffrey. :)

Geoffrey of Anjou's Bastards
by Adelaide of Angers:
1. Hameline de Warenne (1129-1202). He married Isabella de Warenne, who had previously been married to King Stephen's son William, and was made Earl of Surrey. In Sharon Penman's books, he's depicted as being close to Henry II - does anyone know if this is true?
by unknown mothers:
2. Mary, Abbess of Shaftesbury (died c.1216)
3. Emma. She married Guy, Sire de Laval, and secondly David ap Owen, Prince of East Gwynnedd.

Henry II's Bastards
by a woman called Ikenai:
1. Geoffrey, Archbishop of York (1151-1212).
2. William Longespee, Earl of Salisbury (died 1226). He married the daughter of William Fitzpatrick, Earl of Salisbury. Does anyone know if he was close to his half-siblings? Was it one of them who made him an earl, or was it Henry?
3. Peter.
by Alix of France, daughter of Eleanor of Aquitaine and Louis VII of France, at the time betrothed to the future Richard I:
4, 5, 6 and 7. Various children who died young. How did Eleanor feel about this liason???
by Nesta:
8. Morgan, Bishop of Durham.
by Alice de Porhoet:
9. Child, nothing much known.
by unknown mothers:
10. Matilda, Abbess of Barking.
11. Hugh of Wells, Bishop of Lincoln.
12. Richard.

Richard I's Bastards
by Joan de St Pol:
1. Fulk.
by an unknown mother:
2. Philip, Lord of Cognac. Perhaps married Amelia of Cognac.

King John's Bastards
by a woman called Suzanne, possibly a sister of the Earl of Surrey:
1. Richard Fitzjohn, Baron of Chilham (died 1242/53). He married Rohese of Dover.
by Clementina, wife of Henry Pinel:
2. Joan (died 1237). She married Llwelyn ap Iorweth, Prince of Wales. She's the subject of Penman's novel 'Here Be Dragons' and Barbara Erskine's novel 'Child of the Phoenix' is about her daughter Eleyne.
by Hawise:
3. Oliver (died 1290).
by unknown mothers:
4. Osbert Gifford.
5. Geoffrey Fitzroy (died 1205).
6. John Fitzjohn (died 1242).
7. Odo or Eudo Fitzroy.
8. Henry.
9. Richard, Constable of Wallingford Castle.
10. Matilda, Abbess of Barkin.
11. Isabella.

The Windsors / George I & his wife Sophia-Dorothea of Zelle
« on: September 03, 2006, 12:23:07 PM »
Does anyone have any portraits of King George I's mistress, Ehrengard Melusine von der Schulenburg, Duchess of Kendal and Munster, or of any of the daughters they had together (Anna Luise Sophie, Melusine, Countess of Walsingham and Chesterfield and Margaret Gertrude, Countess Lippe). The Duchess was described by Robert Walpole as 'as much the queen of England as anyone'. Rumours that George had secretly married her were rife, especially after she was made Princess of Eberstein by Emperor Charles VI.

The Tudors / Jasper Tudor
« on: September 02, 2006, 02:13:38 PM »
Hey everyone, I was looking around on and wikipedia, and noticed some things about Jasper Tudor that I hadn't known before. Apparently, he had two illegitimate daughters, Helen and Joan. Helen was reputedly the mother of Stephen Gardiner, and Joan was the ancestress of Oliver Cromwell.  :o

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