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The Tudors / Janis Joplin's Plantagenet ancestry
« on: April 09, 2007, 10:24:51 AM »
I didn't know if I should post this here or in the Having Fun! Forums. If this should be posted there, I beg the moderators to replace it.

Well, I've been a fan of Janis Joplin's music for quite a few years now and last night, by chance, I was able to put together two of my greatest passions together, when I found a page in which several famous people are related through very far away blood ties with the owners of the page and members of royalty. That's how I found out that one of Janis Joplin's ancestors was Hamelin Plantagenet, half-brother to King Henry II if England, as he was a bastard son of Geoffrey d'Anjou. It goes as follows:

1.   Janis Lyn Joplin (1943-1970)
2.   Dorothy Bonita East (1913-1998)
3.   Laura Mildred Hanson (1890-1958)
4.   Herbert Milton Hanson (1879-1966)
5.   Henry W. Hanson (1846-)
6.   John Milton Hanson (1807-1887)
7.   Persis Gunn (1779-1814)
8.   Asahel Gunn (1757-1834)
9.   Asahel Gunn (1730-1796)
10.   Esther Belden (1697-1734)
11.   Stephen Belden (1658-1720)
12.   Samuel Belden (1632-1713)
13.   Richard Belden (1591-1655)
14.   Francis Baildon (1560-1622)
15.   George Baildon (1521-1588)
16.   Robert Baildon (1499-1559)
17.   John Baildon (1468-1526)
18.   Walter Baildon (1448-1511)
19.   Robert Baildon (1427-1473)
20.   Janet Fitz William (1399-)
21.   John Fitz William (1377-1417)
22.   William Fitz William (1340-1398)
23.   John Fitz William (1327-1385)
24.   John Fitz William (1278-1349)
25.   William Fitz William (1265-1342)
26.   William Fitz William (1234-)
27.   William Fitz William (1208-1294)
28.   Thomas Fitz William (1185-1266)
29.   Ella de Warenne (1164-)
30.   Hamelin Plantagenet (1129-1202)
31.   Geoffrey Plantagenet (1113-1151)

The source is:

I just wanted to comment on it because I think it’s somehow curious and amusing, to found out that Janis Joplin was related (although by very, very far blood ties) with the majority of European royalty, as most of them descend from Geoffrey through his son Henry II.

Iberian Royal Families / Exotic queens and mistresses of the Kings of Spain
« on: September 26, 2006, 02:56:15 AM »
I should be working now, but I'm fed up of it, so I've decided to start this new thread!

In it, I'd like to discuss several "exotic" or "rare" consorts of some of the Spanish kings. With this adjectives I refer to women that had been born in far away countries or whose culture was much different to that of the kings they married or with whom they had an affair. I can think of these women:

1. Zaida (Isabel)(1070-1091): She was a Moorish princess, widow of the prince of Seville. She became the mistress of King Alfonso VI of Castile and converted to Catholicism, receiveng the name of Isabel upon her baptism. She gave the king an only son, Sancho (1091-1107), who was declared heir to the throne but died young at battle and couldn't inherit his father's kingdom. It would have interesting to have a mixed blood king!

2. Richza of Poland (1139-1185): She was the second wife of King Alfonso VII and she bore him a son (died in childhood) and a daughter, Sancha, who became Queen of Portugal.

3. Isabel of Portugal (1797-1818): Although she was Portuguese, she was transferred with her family to Brazil in 1806 upon Napoleon's invasion. She was there until 1816, when she married King Ferdinand VII. As she spent more time living in Brazil than in Portugal or Spain, I think she can be considered an exotic queen.

Then we had a couple of princesses whose marriages were also strange, considering Spain's political marriages: Christina of Norway, wife of infante Felipe, a son of King Ferdinand III the Saint of Castile; Katherine of Constantinopla, wife of infante Fadrique, another son of Ferdinand the Saint; and Charlotte de Lusignan, Queen of Cyprus, wife if infante Juan of Aragón in the 15 th century.

What do you think of these women? Can you think of any more?


This thread is just to show that Sophie of Bavaria, daughter of Duke Max in Bavaria and Elizabeth Douglas and wife of Prince Alois of Liechtenstein is descended, through her father, from Erzsébet Báthori (1560-1614), the Blood Countess!

Sophie (1967)
Max Wittelsbach (1937)
Maritta Draskovich von Trakostjan (1905-1969)
Dénes Maria Draskovich (1875-1909)
Pál Draskovich (1846-1889)
Károly Draskovich (1807-1855)
József Draskovich (1773-1818)
Ferenc Draskovich (1750-1817)
József Kázmér Draskovich
János Draskovich (d. 1733)
Maria Magdolna Nadasdy
Ferenc Nadasdy (1622-1671)
Pál Nadasdy (1598-1650)
Erzsébet Báthori (1560-1614)


Not a great piece of information, but interesting and curious, nevertheless!

The Tudors / Spanish Ambassadors
« on: December 08, 2005, 07:08:14 AM »
Hi to everyone!

Does anyone have a complete list of all the Spanish (and imperial) ambassadors during Tudor era??

Iberian Royal Families / Royal mistresses, lovers & illegitimate children
« on: November 06, 2005, 12:28:54 PM »

As in the French Board, I'd like to start a new thread on the extramarital affairs of the Spanish Kings since Carlos I:

* Carlos I had several lovers:

1. Germaine of Foix (1488-1536): She was the widow of his grandfather, Ferdinand of Aragon and she gave him a duaghter: Isabel de Castilla (1518-after 1536).

2. Joanna Maria van der Gheynst (1500-1541): she gave him a daughter, Margarita de Austria (1522-1586), wife of Alessandro de Médici and Ottavio Farnesio.

3. A woman from Nassau of unknown name: She gave him a daughter, Juana (1523-1530), a very young nun in Spain.

4. Ursulina della Penna (cir.1500-1580): She gave him another daughter, Tadea de Austria (1523-1562), wife of Sinibaldo de Copeschi.

5. Barbara Blomberg (1528-1597):  She gave him a son, don Juan de Austria (1547-1578).

* Felipe II: None of them have been proved as actual lovers.

1. Lady Madeleine Dacre: while he was married to Mary Tudor.

2. Lady Catherine Leney: while he was married to Mary Tudor.

3. Lady Elizabeth Tudor: while he was married to Mary Tudor (don't shout at me, but it was a rumour at the time!).

4. Eufrasia de Guzmán: while he was married to Isabel de Valois, a lady-in-waiting of Juana, Dowager Princess of Portugal.

5. Isabel de Osorio: With whom it was rumoured that he had two illegitimate sons, Pedro and Bernardino.

* Felipe IV: a list of his bastards:

1. Margarita de Austria (1625-1650), born to Philip and a young woman from Madrid whose name is unknown. She was a nun since 1641 in the Descalzas Reales Convent in Madrid.  
2. Francisco Fernando Isidro de Austria (1626-1634), born to Philip and María de Chirel (1607-1626). He died being a little boy and he was posthumously recognized, as he was buried in El Escorial Monastery.  
3. Juan José de Austria (1629-1679), born to Philip and one of his favourite lovers, the actress María Inés Calderón y Velasco (1611-1676), ''La Calderona''. Juan José was Viceroy of Cataluña and Naples and some kind of ''Primer Minister'' in Spain during Charles II's (his half-brother) reign (1677-1679). He had three illegitimate daughters, all of them nuns and died without offspring.  
4. Domingo de San Cristóbal (1631-1683), born to Philip and a woman from Calahorra whose name is unknown. He was an Agustinian monk since 1649.  
5. Alfonso Enríquez de Santo Tomás (1634-1692), born to Philip and Tomasa Aldana (1617-1676). He was Bishop of Osma (1653-1692), Plasencia (1657-1692) and Málaga (1664-1692).  
6. Juan Cossío del Sacramento (1640-1701), born to Philip and Teresa Aldana (1620-1664), who was sister of another of Philip's mistresses. Juan was an Agustinian monk since 1655.  
7. A son named Carlos whose fate and mother are unknown.  
8. Alonso Antonio de San Martín (1636-170, born to Philip and Mariana Pérez de Cuevas. Monk since 1650, Bishop of Oviedo (1656-1664) and Bishop of Cuenca (1664-170.  
9. Fernando Valdés y de Uribeondo (1638-1702), born to Philip and Ana María de Uribeondo (1620-1703). Governor of Novara since 1661, he married Anna Maria di Capece (1642-1685) in 1660. I don't know if they ever had children.  
10. Ana Margarita de Austria (1641-1699), born to Philip and Margarita del Escala (1625-1699). She was a nun since 1656.  
He had many many others, as he fathered other 20 children of whom we know nothing about!

* Fernando VII:

1. Pepa la Malagueña: the owner of a brothel in Madrid.

2. María Antonia Pérez: a famous prostitute from Madrid.

* Isabel II:

1. Salustiano Olózaga.

2. Francisco Serrano.

3. Manuel Lorenzo de Acuña.

4. José María Ruiz de Arana.

5. Enrique Puigmoltó y Mayáns.

6. Miguel Tenorio de Castilla.

7. Carlos Marfori y Calleja.

8. José Ramiro de la Puente y González-Adín.

9. Joseph Altmann.

There were many others...

* Alfonso XII:

1. Elena Sanz y Martínez de Arrízala (1852-1898), she gave him two sons: Alfonso (1880-1970) and Fernando (1881-1922).

* Alfonso XIII:

1. Mélanie de Gaufridy de Dortan (1876-1935), gave him a son: Roger Levêque de Vilmorin (1905-1980).

2. Beatrice Noon, gave him a daughter: Juana Alfonsa Milán y Quiñones de León (1916-2005).

3. Carmen Ruiz Moragas (d.1936), gave him a daughter and a son: Teresa (1926-1965) and Leandro Alfonso (1929).

Iberian Royal Families / Kings of Castile
« on: September 27, 2005, 06:50:39 AM »
Enrique IV el Impotente (1425-1474), King of Castile

Enrique was born in Valladolid on January 4th, 1425. He was the third child of King Juan II and María of Aragon. He had two older sisters, Catalina and Leonor, but they both died aged two! He would be followed by another sister, María, who lived between 1429 and 1430. By then Enrique's parents were already getting separated. They never got along very well and Juan never visited his wife's bed very oftenly (this gave as a result the rumours of the King being a homosexual).

María then made an alliance with her very ambitious siblings, the princes of Aragon: King Alfonso V, King Juan II of Navarre, Enrique of Villena, Queen Leonor of Portugal and Pedro. All of them conspired to gain more power in Castilian affairs. Juan and María faught for Enrique's custody until they reconciled in order to keep the peace in the reign. María, however, hated Álvaro de Luna, Juan's favourite, so she left the Court again. She arranged the marriage of Enrique to Blanca of Navarre, celebrated in 1440 and she then went to live to Villacastín, in Segovia, with her sister Leonor, Dowager Queen of Portugal. Both were poisoned to death under the orders of don Álvaro de Luna on the 18th February 1445.

Enrique was by then a grown man of 20. He was very tall, blond and blue-eyed. With an athletic body, Enrique was a very insecure person and was pathologically shy! Although he was forced to live with his beautiful wife, he never consummated the marriage. In 1447 his father remarried, this time to infanta Isabel of Portugal, three years Enrique's junior, who gave Juan two children: Isabel (1451) and Alfonso (1453). Enrique wasn't in good terms with his stepmother, mainly because he was afraid of powerful women.

Isabel of Portugal was able to keep Juan by her side (the same thing in which Enrique's mother had failed) and she was also able to get rid of Alvaro de Luna, who was beheaded (this was the initial reason for the guilt that killed Juan II and that turned Isabel mad!). In 1453 Enrique wanted to annull his marriage in order to get married again. Although Isabel wanted him to remain married to Blanca (that would have meant a childless marriage, so her son would become king), Juan II started the annullment negotiations. Blanca defended herself with great dignity, but there was nothing she could do, repudiated and sent to Navarre, she would be poisoned under the orders of her father Juan and her sister Leonor 11 years after her divorce.

Enrique became King a year later, in 1454, after his father's death. He started the search for a new wife and he found it in infanta Juana of Portugal. Juana was his cousin, the youngest and posthumous daughter of King Duarte I of Portugal and Leonor of Aragon. She was very pretty and happy and everybody she was absolutely adorable. They were married in Cordoba on the 21st May 1455, but we will never know what happened that night, as Enrique had abolished the tradition of witnesses being present at the consummation of a royal marriage.

The Tudors / Tudor godparents
« on: September 26, 2005, 05:22:13 PM »

Hi! Sorry to all of you who are missing me... (if there IS somebody missing me, of course!!) ;) but I've been having quite a busy week!

I wanted you to ask you, however, who were Henry VIII's godparents? It's something I started thinking about yesterday and I don't have the slightest idea of who they were!

Can you help me, please? I promise I will be right back writing as I have been doing before in a couple of days! Thank you very much! ;)

The Tudors / Tudor money
« on: September 20, 2005, 04:48:24 PM »

Hey there!

Does someone know how was money in Tudor times called? I mean, nowadays we have euros, dollars, pounds... but what was the Tudor money's name??

Iberian Royal Families / Queens of Portugal
« on: September 14, 2005, 03:18:42 PM »
Queens of Portugal. I have their names written in Spanish, so for any translation, please tell me!

·      Teresa I of Castile (1070-1130), she was duchess of Portugal, wife of Henry of Burgundy and mother of Alfonso I. However some sources say she was named Queen regnant in 1112. Not quite sure about this, so please contribute if you have any info!
·      Matilde of Maurienne (1125-1157), wife of Alfonso I. Married in 1246, mother of Sancho I.
·      Dulce of Aragon (1160-1198), wife of Sancho I. Married in 1175, mother of Alfonso II.
·      Urraca of Castile (1186-1220), wife of Alfonso II. Married in 1206, mother of Sancho II and Alfonso III.
·      Mencía López de Haro (1230-1270), wife of Sancho II. Married in 1246.
·      Matilde of Dammartin (1202-1262), first wife of Alfonso III. Married in 1235, marriage annulled in 1253.
·      Beatriz of Castile (1242-1303), second wife of Alfonso III. Married in 1253, mother of Dionisio I.
·      Saint Isabel of Aragon (1271-1336), wife of Dionisio I. Married in 1282, mother of Alfonso IV.
·      Beatriz of Castile (1293-1359), wife of Alfonso IV. Married in 1309, mother of Pedro I.
·      Blanca of Castile (1315-1375), first wife of Pedro I. Married in 1325, annulled in 1330. Not a queen, as her marriage was annulled before her father-in-law’s death.
·      Constanza Manuel de Castilla (1323-1345), second wife of Pedro I. Married in 1339, mother of Fernando I. Not really a queen, she died before her husband inherited the throne.
·      Inés de Castro (1327-1355), third wife of Pedro I. Married secretly in 1354. Murdered by her father-in-law, so she was not queen. But, Pedro I made her be crowned when she was ALREADY DEAD!
·      Leonor Teles de Menezes (1357-1386), wife of Fernando I. Married in 1372. Mother of Beatriz I.
·      Beatriz I of Portugal (1372-1410), queen regnant for some time in 1383.
·      Philippa of Lancaster (1360-1415), wife of Juan I of Aviz, bastard son of Pedro I and Teresa Lourenço. Married in 1387. Mother of Eduardo I.
·      Leonor of Aragon (1402-1445), wife of Eduardo I. Married in 1428. Mother of Alfonso V.
·      Isabel of Portugal (1432-1455), wife of Alfonso V. Married in 1448, mother of Juan II.
·      Juana of Castile (1462-1530), wife of Alfonso V. Married in 1475. She was never considered queen and, although the marriage was never consummated, it was never annulled.
·      Leonor of Portugal (1458-1525), wife of Juan II. Married in 1471.
·      Isabel of Aragon (1470-1498), wife of Manuel I. Married in 1497.
·      María of Aragon (1482-1517), second wife of Manuel I. Married in 1500. Mother of Juan III and Enrique I.
·      Leonor of Austria (1498-1558), third wife of Manuel I. Married in 1518.
·      Catalina of Austria (1507-1578), wife of Juan III. Married in 1525. Grandmother of Sebastián I.
·      Ana of Austria (1549-1580), wife of Felipe I (Felipe II of Spain). Married in 1570. Mother of Felipe II.
·      Margarita of Austria (1584-1611), wife of Felipe II (Felipe III of Spain). Married in 1599, mother of Felipe III.
·      Isabel of Bourbon (1603-1644), wife of Felipe III (Felipe IV of Spain). Married in 1615.
·      Luisa Pérez de Guzmán (1613-1666), wife of Juan IV de Bragança. Married in 1633, mother of Alfonso VI and Pedro II.
·      María Francisca of Savoy (1646-1683), wife of Alfonso VI (married in 1666, annulment in 1668) and of Pedro II (married in 1668).
·      María Sofía of Neuburg (1666-1699), second wife of Pedro II. Married in 1687, mother of Juan V.
·      María Ana of Austria (1683-1754), wife of Juan V. Married in 1708, mother of José I and Pedro III.
·      María Ana Victoria of Bourbon (1718-1781), wife of José I. Married in 1728. Mother of María I.
·      María I of Portugal (1734-1816), queen regnant since 1777. Married her uncle Pedro III in 1760. Mother of Juan VI.
·      Carlota Joaquina of Bourbon (1775-1830), wife of Juan VI. Married in 1790. Mother of Pedro IV and Miguel I.
·      María Leopoldina of Hapsburg-Lorraine (1797-1826), first wife of Pedro IV. Married in 1817. Mother of María II.
·      María II of Portugal (1819-1853), queen regnant from 1826 to 1828 and from 1834 to her death. Mother of Pedro V and Luis I.
·      Estefanía of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (1837-1859), wife of Pedro V. Married in 1858.
·      María Pía of Savoy (1847-1911), wife of Luis I. Married in 1862. Mother of Carlos I.
·      María Amelia of Orleans (1865-1951), wife of Carlos I. Married in 1886. Mother of Manuel II.

queens regnant

queens regent

Iberian Royal Families / Queens of Castile
« on: September 13, 2005, 02:04:12 PM »
A complete list of Castilian queens since Alfonso VI (1040-1109):

·      Inés of Aquitaine (1052-1097), first wife of Alfonso VI. Married  1069, anullment in 1077.
·      Constanza of Burgundy (1046-1093), second wife of Alfonso VI. Married 1081, mother of Queen Urraca I.
·      Berta of Burgundy (1080-1097), third wife of Alfonso VI. Marrried in 1093.
·      Isabel of Aquitaine (1074-1104), fourth wife of Alfonso VI. Married in 1097.
·      Beatriz of Sicily (1090-1110), fifth wife of Alfonso VI. Married in 1108.
·      Urraca I of Castile (1082-1126), queen regnant since 1109. Mother of Alfonso VII.
·      Berenguela Berenguer of Barcelona (1112-1149), first wife of Alfonso VII. Married in 1128. Mother of Sancho III of Castile and Ferdinand II of Leon.
·      Riqueza of Poland (1139-1185), second wife of Alfonso VII. Married in 1152.
·      Urraca of Portugal (1151-1188), first wife of Ferdinand II of Leon. Married in 1165, annulment in 1175. Mother of Alfonso IX of Leon.
·      Teresa de Trava (1160-1179), second wife of Ferdinand II of Leon. Married in 1176.
·      Urraca de Haro (1165-1226), third wife of Ferdinand II of Leon. Married in 1180.
·      Eleanor Plantagenet (1162-1214), wife of Alfonso VIII, son of Sancho III and Blanche of Navarre, who had died before her husband became king. Married in 1177, mother of Enrique I and Berenguela I.
·      Saint Teresa of Portugal (1176-1250), first wife of Alfonso IX of Leon. Married in 1191, annulment in 1198.
·     Berenguela I of Castile (1180-1246), daughter of Alfonso VIII and Eleanor Plantagenet. Wife of Alfonso IX of Leon in 1198, annulment in 1209. Became queen regnant of Castile in 1217 and abdicated soon afterwards in her son, Fernando III.
·      Inés de Mendoza (1193-1265), third wife of Alfonso IX of Leon, married in 1212.
·      Mafalda of Portugal (1197-1257), first wife of Enrique I. Married in 1215, annulment in 1216.
·      Sancha of Leon (1193-1243), second wife of Enrique I. Married only by proxy in 1217.
·      Beatriz of Hohenstaufen (1198-1235), first wife of Fernando III. Married in 1219. Mother of Alfonso X.
·      Juana of Ponthieu (1216-1279), second wife of Fernando III. Married in 1237.
·      Violante of Aragon (1236-1301), wife of Alfonso X. Married in 1248. Mother of Sancho IV.
·      María of Molina (1260-1321), wife of Sancho IV. Married in 1281. Mother of Fernando IV.
·      Constanza of Portugal (1290-1313), wife of Fernando IV. Married in 1302. Mother of Alfonso XI.
·      Constanza Manuel de Castilla (1323-1345), first wife of Alfonso XI. Married in 1325, annulment in 1327. Later became queen of Portugal by marriage to Pedro I of Portugal.
·      María of Portugal (1313-1357), second wife of Alfonso XI. Married in 1328. Mother of Pedro I.
·      María de Padilla (1337-1361), first wife of Pedro I. Married in 1353.
·      Blanca of Bourbon (1336-1361), second and bigamous wife of Pedro I. Married in 1353.
·      Juana de Castro (1334-1374), third and poligamous wife of Pedro I. Married in 1354.
·      Juana Manuel de Castilla (1339-1381), wife of Enrique II, son of Alfonso XI and his mistress Leonor de Guzmán. Married in 1350. Mother of Juan I.
·      Leonor of Aragon (1358-1382), first wife of Juan I. Married in 1375. Mother of Enrique III of Castile and Fernando I of Aragon.
·      Beatriz I of Portugal (1372-1410), second wife of Juan I of Castile. Married in 1383. Beatriz was queen regnant of Portugal in 1383 (deposed).
·      Catalina of Lancaster (1373-1418), wife of Enrique III. Married in 1388. Mother of Juan II.
·      María of Aragon (1396-1445), wife of Juan II. Married in 1420. Mother of Enrique IV.
·      Isabel of Portugal (1428-1496), wife of Juan II. Married in 1447. Mother of Isabel I and our first Alfonso XII (yes, we’ve had two Alfonso XII’s!).
·      Blanca of Aragon (1424-1464), first wife of Enrique IV. Married in 1440, annulment in 1453.
·      Juana of Portugal (1439-1475), second wife of Enrique IV. Married in 1455.
.       Isabel I of Castile (1451-1504), queen regnant since 1474. Her daughter, Queen Juana I, inherited both Castile and Aragon, so she became the first “queen of Spain".

queens regnant

queens regent

The Tudors / Margaret Tudor (1489-1541)
« on: September 04, 2005, 09:30:00 AM »
I am copying this text from what I already wrote in other threads in the Stuart forum. As a new thread on Margaret was requested on the Tudor Queens thread, I open this one dedicated to her, enjoy and please feel free to contribute:

Second of Henry VII and Elizabeth's eight children, Margaret was born the 28th November 1489 in Westminster Palace. She had an eldest brother, Arthur (1486-1502), and she would be followed by Henry (1491-1547), Elizabeth (1492-1495), Edward (circa 1494-circa 1494), Mary (1496-1533), Edmund (1499-1500) and Catherine (1503-1503). The latters birth provoked their mother's death, a fact which had a great impact in her children's mind.  
By then Margaret, who was 13, was already betrothed to King James IV of Scotland, who was 30. They were married in Holyrood Abbey the 8th August 1503. The couple started quite well and, while Margaret admired her husband's age and experience, he was quite impressed by her round but pretty face, her forms and her appetizing breasts, quite big for a young girl of her age.  
Their first child was born in 1507 and it was a son. He was called James after his father but the baby wouldn't last much, dying in 1508. Both James and Margaret were devastated by their prince's death, but this event served to make even bigger the differences that were starting to arouse between the couple. In 1508 a stillborn daughter was born and the baby boy that was born in 1509, Arthur, died just a year later. By then the marriage had proven a complete failure and James and Margaret slept apart for a while. They only agreed in having more children but just for duty, not for pleasure. On the 15th April 1512 another son, James, was born, and his father was absolutely proud of him. Later that year Margaret miscarried another girl.  
In 1513 a war started between Scotland and England. James was annoyed with Henry VIII because he had seized two Scottish ships without reason and because he hadn't send a great part of Margaret's promised dowry. The Battle of Flodden was faught on September 9th, 1513. James IV was killed in the battle and his small son of 17 months, James V, became King. Margaret was now a young Regent of 24 and she was pregnant again.  
Even before James's death, Margaret had already began a relationship with the Earl of Angus, Archibald Douglas (1490-1557). Many people even thought that Prince Alexander, who was born in 1514, was Angus's child and not James's. Three months after Alexander's birth she married her lover, losing her right to be a Regent, as she was no longer the Queen Dowager, and also losing people's favour. John Stewart, Duke of Albany, who was James IV's cousin, seized the power from Margaret, who fled from Scotland with Prince Alexander and the Earl of Angus, looking for help in her brother's Court.  

Soon afterwards Margaret changed her allegiances with the English and quickly turned to Albany’s French-oriented tendencies. She wrote him secretly and Albany allowed her to return to Scotland as the Queen Mother, but not as the Queen Regent. He felt that it was wiser to appease the intriguing mother of  King James than making her angry in the Court of her belligerent brother, where she could plot whenever she wanted.  

Iberian Royal Families / Felipe V of Spain and his family
« on: September 02, 2005, 05:16:54 AM »
Infante Luis Antonio of Spain was born on 25th July 1727 in the Buen Retiro Palace (Madrid), and he was the sixth child and fourth son of Felipe V and Isabel Farnesio. Their other children were: Carlos Sebastían, nicknamed Carlet, who became Carlos VII of Naples and III of Spain; Francisco, who died aged a month; María Ana Victoria, Marianinna, wife of José I of Portugal; Felipe, Pippo, duke of Parma´and María Teresa, Teté, first wife of Dauphin Louis Ferdinand. After Luis, nicknamed Lulú, María Antonia, future wife of Vittorio Amedeo III of Savoy, was born. They called her Totó. Felipe also had another surviving son from his first marriage: Fernando, Prince of the Asturias. Lulú was called Luis to honour his oldest half-brother, King Luis I.

As Lulú had three older brothers, his mother searched for a good position for her youngest son. In 1735, when he was 8, he became a Cardinal of the Catholic Church. He was also the Archbishop of Toledo, the most important religious charge in Spain. The he was also appointed as Archbishop of Seville, becoming one of the richest persons in Spain at the tender age of 9! Maybe his ambitious mother, Isabel, was trying to get him even higher... to Rome, perhaps...

His education was very poor and this is what his confessor said once about him: "I never found His Highness reading a book or talking about things that make our senses richer. His Higness spent his mornings talking to the inferior servants, whom have become excesivelly familiar to him. His continuous leisure can be the origin of serious damage in his person. He has everything he wants to amuse himself, his will is never contradicted by anyone." When he reached 16, someone wrote that his House was becoming poor because of the infante's excessive expenses.

María Victoria dal Pozzo della Cisterna, wife of Amadeo I de Saboya

The Tudors / Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« on: August 23, 2005, 04:28:19 PM »

There were some people who were thought to be King Henry VIII's illegitimate children:

1. Henry Carey (1526-1596), officially a son of William Carey and Mary Boleyn.

2. Thomas Stukely (1525-1578), officially a son of Mary Berkeley by her husband Thomas Perrot (?); why changing the last name then? (sorry no portrait)

3. John Perrot (1528-1592), officially a son of Mary Berkeley by her husband Thomas Perrot.

4. Ethelreda Malte (about 1529-after 1555), a supposed daughter of Henry VIII and a royal laundress called Joan Dyngley. (sorry no portrait)

What do you think? Were they really Henry's children? I know we already discussed Henry Carey and his sister, but I thought I should include at least one of them!

With this thread I would like to present to you the "Queens" of the Carlist dynasty.

Carlist Queens

1. María Francisca of Braganza (1800-1834), daughter of King Joao VI of Portugal and infanta Carlota Joaquina of Spain. She married Carlos V in 1816.

2. María Teresa de Braganza (1793-1874), sister of the previous queen, she married her brother-in-law Carlos V in 1838.

3. María Carolina de Borbón (1820-1861), daughter of King Francesco of the Two Sicilies and Infanta María Isabel of Spain. She married Carlos VI in 1850.

4. Beatriz de Habsburgo-Lorena (1824-1906), daughter of Francis IV of Modena and Maria Beatrice of Savoy, she married Juan III in 1847.

5. Margarita de Borbón (1847-1893), daughter of Carlo III of Parma and Louise Marie of France, she married Carlos VII in 1867.

6. María Berta de Rohan (1860-1945), daughter of Arthur de Rohan and Maria Gabriella von Waldstein, she married Carlos VII in 1894.

7. María de las Nieves de Braganza (1852-1941), daughter of former King Miguel of Portugal and Adelheid von Löwenstein, she married Alfonso Carlos I in 1871.

8. Magdalena de Borbón-Busset (1898-1984), daughter of Georges de Bourbon-Busset and Marie Joséphine Jeanne de Kerret de Quillien, she married future Javier I in 1927.

9. Irene de Holanda (1939), daughter of Queen Juliana of the Netherlands and Bernard zur Lippe-Biesterfeld. She married future King Carlos Hugo in 1964. Although they were divorced in 1981, she is still considered by the purist carlists as their Queen.

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