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Messages - Nathalie

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News Links / Re: Osama bin Laden killed by U.S. forces
« on: May 11, 2011, 05:22:50 PM »
Bin Laden was trained by the CIA.
Most of the so-called mujahedeen of aghanistan got a good training by Americans.
Now that the puppy broke the leash, I totally understand that Mr Obama decided to extreminate the mad dog.
But that doesn't make the United states an angel - killing of one "+bad guy" doesn't justify Washington's policy in all over the world, i.e. Irak, etc.

Ok, I'm going back to the Romanov part, because this just makes me nauseous.
Sorry, but just because I hate this whole Islamic radicalism, I still cannot clap to the "brave yankee soldiers" who step foot all over the world, "bringing democracy and freedom".

Imperial Russian History / Re: Pre revolution spoken Russian
« on: May 11, 2011, 02:44:52 PM »
Fine, I will try to revive the topic - with another question:) (what a surprise...heh)

I've read Robert O. Crummy's book on the Russian aristocracy in the 17th century ("Aristocrats and Serviteurs") where it is written, thatwhen addressing the throne, boyars usually  adopted a self-effacing  tone, referring to themselves as the tsar's slaves, and using a lower class form of their names - a nickname and surname, without the patronymic, "the sign of social distinction".

I wonder was it a tradition throughout the whole Romanov-era?

Imperial Russian History / Re: The Russian Soul
« on: April 29, 2011, 02:28:27 AM »
There the problem is unassimiliting Muslim arrivals.

Definitely but then how what is the position of those, who have deep roots in their country/nation and CONVERT to Islam...?

it seems national identity is a powerful thing and runs more deeply than we are inclined to think

Or not, at least it is not the case with the above mentioned reverts/converts. They seem to drop rather quickly their identity to switch to an "arabized" one..*sigh*

(Back somehow to the topic, I met some Russian muslim converts before, I wonder how do they deal with such issues, i.e. identity, etc...Unfortunately I was too young in those days and was not interested in such issues so I did not ask...)

The Habsburgs / Re: Crown Princess/Archduchess Stephanie
« on: April 28, 2011, 01:17:13 AM »
Replying to a post from 2010 Oct...:)

As the princess is very fond of the country and Hungarian cuisine, many still bear the names ételfajta (chopped Stefania, Stefania cake). The "Stefania style" main courses are prepared in common is that some form of beledolgozott boiled eggs.

Ok, Google translate did a pretty nice job:) I think its clear from it, that Stephanie liked Hungary (and -as far as we can see from her second marriage, lol- Hungarians) - I am surprised that this detail in her did not help to get close to her mother-in-law...would had been a nice topic to chit-chat about with Empress Elizabeth.
(But if I remember well from my readings, Elizabeth "switched to Greece" in those days....)

Anyway, I always symphatized with Stephanie..Must had been hard on her, marriage with Rudolph, and the whole new family...They weren't too nice with her.

Imperial Russian History / Religious sects at the turn of the century
« on: April 28, 2011, 01:04:07 AM »
I read a lot about the enthusiasm of the nobility and intelligentsia in Russia at the turn of the century towards different sects and religious offshoots - the best example (and the most well-known) is definitely Rasputin, but looks like to me, that such -hand in hand with that "Titanic-like" decadence of the higher classes- was indeed a "fashion" - so as the interest in various sects. Some converted to R.Catholicism,but some turned towards more "Russian spirited" groups, such as hlists, etc....(even the bolshevik Bonch Bruevich mentions it).

I wonder if the Old Beilevers ("Raskolniks"*) came into the picture of such (re)searchers, and overall I am interested in their position; in some books I even read that some suspected Rasputin as being "one of them" or at least associated closely with them. (Ok, maybe I should have opened this in the Rasputin-thread...?)
I know, that until 1905, Old Believers were not fully emancipated, but had they any role between 1905 and 1917/18 in Russian society? I know, that the Empress Alexandra was also interested in what she called "native Russian beliefs" (of course within orthodoxy)...did she ever come across them...?

*It might be an offensive name, if so I apologise...

Imperial Russian History / Re: The Russian Soul
« on: April 28, 2011, 12:51:47 AM »
However, "Americas" refers to the continents, in that sense, Canadians are  also in America, as is Mexico, etc. "Americans" refers to citizens of the United States of America. As far as I know, that is the only country to have the word in  the official name of the entity.

Oh, it's good that you wrote this, now I won't feel ashamed by using the -easier- expression, "americans":)
However I remember reading about Nelson Algren, who wrote, that when he was somewhere in South-America and was asked at the aiport of a country there, where is he from and answered he is an American, the soldier replied, well Sir, I am an American too...

Imperial Russian History / Re: The Russian Soul
« on: April 27, 2011, 06:29:41 AM »
I am not Russian, but living "in the region" so to say - though I've never met anybody who thinks of the USA as "enemy", I could say, there is a ...misunderstanding (?) amongst "us" and "them" - and I've met young Russians who feel the same.
I think it is somehow natural. We have so different historical, societal background, different way of thinking, how we see things, life, that Americans (or, sticking to the topic's spirit, "American soul") is something alien to us.

(Of course when I'm talking about "Americans" I mean from the States...I don't like to use this word, as I'm sure, a Peruvian or a Chilean is also different, though he/she is also "American":))

Imperial Russian History / Konstantin Pobedonostsev
« on: April 25, 2011, 05:28:31 AM »
I wonder about his role in the politics of Alexander III. and Nicholas II.
I know, that he had an important role during Alexander III. and I also read, that during the first years of his reign,  Pobedonostsev was highly appreciated by the Dowager Empress and he could keep his influence on the young Tsar but later on was dismissed.

Overall, how would you consider his influence on this era? I found somewhere, that for example Tolstoy formed Anna Karenina's narrow-minded, hypocrite husband after P. but also read that as for Dostoevski, he quite liked Pobedonostsev (not sure though...even forgot where did I read that).

Can we possibly say, that in this era, there was a "slavophile renaissance" and P. was it's flag-bearer?
Was he dismissed at the end or retired?

For further reading:

Actually, Nicholas himself in his diaries has mentioned that he wondered how he could be in love with two women at the same time.

Young and/or inexperienced people tend to mix love with passion - I beleive this is what happened to N. too...

Imperial Russian History / "Silver Era" of Russia and the IF
« on: April 23, 2011, 03:51:31 AM »
(I hope I am not repeating a topic, if so then my apologies)

I've asked already about tsarina Alexandra's favouritue writer (as I read that she was an ardent reader) and frankly I've never heard about that author's name.

Overall, it sounds sad, that in the middle of the so-called "Silver Era" of the Russian literature I get the impression that the works of those contemporary poets and authors (such as Blok, Akhmatova, Beliy, etc) were not really preferred by the IF.
I wonder why...I read that the tsar liked Gogol, and his wife found enjoyment in the works of such poets as Fet or Maykov - so I beleive they had a good taste.
I get the impression that the imperial couple were..hmm...too "sheltered" from their contemporaries. Does anybody know, if Nicholas or Alexandra even heard/cared about what's going on in such circles?
I read in one of Alexandra's letters to the tsar during WWI. her complaint that nowadays (that is in their days:)) no real writer emerges, everybody is fake  and untalented or something like that - honestly this strucks me as she was living in a great era, when Russia was "literally" full with talents!

Then of course, I guess they would have judged them as too "mondain" and decadent...:(

She left in the same motorcar with Lili Dehn. ( Much to the relief of Baroness Buxhoeveden, who I dont think liked Anna very much).

Hmm, seems like most of the ladies at the court did not really like AV. I've read that count Frederiks stood by her at those "awful scenes" at the Crimean in 1914 (whatever those were:P), but otherwise I tend to bump into comments and notes about everybody else who disliked here.

How was the relationship between AV and Lili Dehn by the way?

Imperial Russian History / Re: The Russian Soul
« on: April 22, 2011, 03:57:53 PM »
Russia. The beginning of the 19 th century.

Hi Lilianna,

Thanks for the music.
May I ask where is the videoclip from? Is it a movie?

Imperial Russian History / Re: Pre revolution spoken Russian
« on: April 22, 2011, 03:53:14 PM »
Thank you for the replies - I hope this thread will shed some new light on this topic..well, new for ME at least:)
Its very interesting for me, because -though I guess its not obvious from my (poorish) English, but forgive me, I'm always in a "rush" when I'm online- I am very much into different languages, I am also teaching a foreign language and such questions interest me...

"The language of public discourse changed as well as the Government used more "revolutionary" and "marxist" rhetoric. "

That is peculiar. In my country, socialism was only introduced in 1945 (well, apart from a brief intermezzo in 1919), but I haven't really noticed any drastic change in our language (considering that I am an ardent reader of classics)
But I can imagine it though..Sounds pretty "orwellish"....

Anyway, that brings up a very good point too (sorry for venting a bit) concerning the evolution and/or devalvation of language(s)...Seems like you consider, that switching to a rather "marxist rhetoric" contaminated the language, at least that is the feeling I get from the post.
But I also think, that languages are like societies, they simply change with time...

"Russian like any other language is a living thing which reflects its time and place and it is inevitable that the Russian language would have evolved. "


I am very curious though, how does the "old" spoken Russian sound, but I am sure that if I am able to master the "textbook Russian" (and why not-)), I will get the chance to get to know the Russian of the pre revolution days.

Imperial Russian History / Pre revolution spoken Russian
« on: April 22, 2011, 04:37:32 AM »
I have heard, that the spoken Russian before the revolution was a little bit different, than the Russian which is used now - Well I don't mean the grammar (though Im not sure, maybe grammar too), but the accent...
I also read even here somewhere, that it was like "silver troika bells across fresh fallen snow".
Is it correct?
Can a language/accent change within such a -relatively- short time?

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