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Messages - Daniela

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The Imperial Family / Re: The Nikolaivichi
« on: November 13, 2006, 05:37:46 AM »
I wrote the wikipedia bio. and yes Daniela , I think you are right Grand Duke Nicholas the elder was an unpleasant man. He was not reallyt like even by his family.
I could not find information about his illegitmate children with Catherine Choslova. Can anybody add somthing about them ?

I liked your story that's way I've posted it. I didn't know almost nothing about him, so thanks for his story! :)

On the web I've found this link with geneaology about his children with Catherine Choslova. According to this link they had five children together and first four of them had their own families or at least they were married:

1. Olga Nicolaievna Nicolaiev, b. 10 Jun 1868 - d. 31 Aug 1950
2. Wladimir Nicolaievitch Nicolaiev, b. 4 Jun 1873 -  d. 28 Jan 1942
3. Catherine Nicolaievna Nicolaiev, b. 1874 - d. 26 Jan 1940
4. Nicolas Nicholaievitch Nicolaiev, b. 16 Apr 1875 - d. 9 Jan 1902
5. Galina Nicolaievna Nicolaiev, b. 28 Jan 1877 - d. 3 Aug 1878 

And the link is


The Imperial Family / Re: The Nikolaivichi
« on: November 10, 2006, 01:04:50 AM »
Wow, she beat him! :o

Well, I don't want to look like I wish him the beatings, but perhaps, you know, the way he treated his wife Alexandra Petrovna, well, perhaps he got it even with Ekaterina Chislova. :P


I see. But who was the owner, the state?



The Imperial Family / Re: The Nikolaivichi
« on: November 09, 2006, 06:56:54 AM »
After I've read above bio I've decided that he wasn't pleasant person at all!  >:(

My request is, does someone have some kind of info about his lover Catherine Choslova, or a photo? From what I read about her, it seems to me that she was a greedy :-\ person? What do you think?


The Imperial Family / Re: The Nikolaivichi
« on: November 09, 2006, 06:50:32 AM »

Grand Duke Nicholas Nicolaievich of Russia

Grand Duke Nicholas Nicolaievich of Russia in his youth

Grand Duke Nicholas Nicolaievich of Russia

All the photos are from "Wikipedia"


The Imperial Family / Re: The Nikolaivichi
« on: November 09, 2006, 06:47:08 AM »
Nicholas Nicolaievich unwillingly married his second cousin Grand Duchess Alexandra Petrovna, formerly Princess Alexandra of Oldenburg (1830-1905), whose father was a grandson of Emperor Paul I. The wedding took place in St Petersburg on February 6 1856. Alexandra was plain and unsophisticated and the couple soon found out that they had little in common. They had two children:
1.   Nikolai Nikolayevich Romanov of Russia the Younger (1856–1929)
2.   Grand Duke Peter Nicolaievich of Russia (1864–1931)
The marriage was in trouble from the start and four years later, Nicholas Nicolaievich developed a permanent relationship with Catherine Choslova, a dancer from the Krasnoye Selo Theater. Their affair was quite open and they have a daughter and two sons. The Grand Duke arranged a change of class into the gentry for his mistress and the couple’s illegitimate children took the surname Nikolayev. The Zar Alexander II ignored his brother affair but advised him to be discrete.
Last years
Nicholas Nicolaievich was in Cannes with his two sons, when his brother Alexander II was assassinated, returning immediately to Russia in March of 1881. The ascension to the Russian throne of his nephew, Alexander III, marked the beginning of the Grand Duke steady decline. Alexander III did not have any special sympathy for his uncle and Nicholas Nicholaievich was resolutely deprived of all his influence. His authority suffered even further, when he was involved in fraudulent military requisitions. When the Grand Duke tried to explain his actions to the Nouvelle Revue of Paris 1880, he indiscreetly attacked government officials and military commanders and eventually was removed from his post. Alexander III also criticized his uncle marital affairs. By then, Nicholas Nicholaievich was living openly with his mistress. His wife left him for good in 1881 and moved to Kiev, but the Grand Duchess refused to grant the divorce he would have wanted. His grown up sons took their mother’s side in the family break up, but continued to live at the palace. Catherine Chislova nagged Nicholas to provide for her and their children, he soon became financially embarrassed and had to mortgage his palace. In 1882, Nicholas Nicolaievich was put under supervision due to the squandering of his fortune; he lived as a private gentleman in a modest house.
Nicholas Nicolaievich, unable to get a divorce, hoped to survive his wife and then marry his mistress, but it was Catherine Chislova who died unexpectedly in Crimea while Grand Duchess Alexandra Petrovna would survive him by nine years. Shortly after his mistress death, Nicholas went mad; he had oral cancer that spread to his brain. Suffering from delusion, he was convinced that all women were in love with him. During one ballet performance, The Grand Duke even attacked a young male dance that took for a woman. In 1890, Nicholas Nicolaievich was declared insane and kept locked indoors in Crimea. He died in Alupka, Crimea on 13/25 April 1891. The Grand Duke reputation at the imperial court was low and his death was not deeply felt. He had squandered all his tremendous wealth and his palace was immediately sold to cancel his massive debts.

OK, this is it.


The Imperial Family / Re: The Nikolaivichi
« on: November 09, 2006, 06:45:55 AM »
I know that this tread was inactive for more then a year, but I would like to restore it, because I didn't know almost nothing about GD NN the elder, except that he was father of GD NN the younger and GD PN and that he didn't liked his wife GD Alexandra.

What I will post is from "Wikipedia":

Grand Duke Nicholas Nicolaievich (born July 27, 1831 in Tsarskoye Selo, died April 13, 1891 in Alupka) was the third son and sixth child of Tsar Nicholas I of Russia and Charlotte of Prussia. He may also be referred to as Nicholas Nicolaievich the Elder to tell him apart from his son. Trained for the military, as a Field Marshal he commanded the Russian army of the Danube in the Russo-Turkish War, 1877–1878.
Military career
His father arranged for him a career in the army. On the day he was born, he was appointed honorary colonel in the Life Guard Lancers and enlisted him in the Life Guard Sappers battalion. A soldier most of his life, he first saw active service in the Crimea War, when he was in his early twenties, taking part in the battle of Inkerman (1854). Grand Duke Nicholas Nicolaievich showed a special interest in military engineering. In 1856, he was appointed as general Inspector of engineers and in 1864, he became commander of the Imperial Guard. In 1873, he accompanied his brother, Alexander II, to Berlin at the meeting of the three emperors: Russia, Germany and Austria.
The epitome of his career was the Russo-Turkish War, 1877–1878, when Nicholas Nicolaievich was appointed Commander in chief of the Russian armies of the Danube, although his reputation as strategist was very low. The Grand Duke had no particular distinction in early successes in the conflict and terrible reverses of the armies under his orders followed these. After the expulsion of the Russian troops from Rumelia and unsuccessful attacks at Plevna, Nicholas Nicolaievich was removed from actual command, although in theory he remained in his post. The victory of his subordinates made him participate in the success at Adranopolis and the peace of San Stefano, but after the war ended, he was criticized for not seizing Constantinople when his headquarters were already established in Adrianople. The Grand Duke also suffered the acute embarrassment of being charged with financial irregularities, of receiving bribes and embezzling money from the government.
His brother, Alexander II promoted Nicholas Nicolaievich career and elected him as Commander of the St Petersburg military region. Eventually he received the ranks of Field Marshal- General, Inspector General of Calvary and inspector General of engineering forces. Nicholas Nicholaievich was an influential military figure; he also served on the State Council.
Tall, strong and with a long thin nose, Nicholas Nicolaievich was neither handsome nor very intelligent. An incredible womanizer, “ He loved all women except for his wife” a contemporary wrote. He enjoyed army life, hunting and was a well-known gourmet; He was an expert on cattle, purebred dogs, horse breeding, fishing and hunting. In his luxurious residence in St Petersburg, the Nikolayevsky Palace, built between 1853 – 1861, horses were a favorite topic of conversation. The Grand Duke Nicholas Nicolaievich took great interest in managing his states, but he was a man who failed to inspired affection, even in the closest to him.

to be continued in next post...

I've read on "Wikipedia", that after Grand Duke Nicholas died, a certain palace was sold to settle his debts. It was the Nikolaevich Palace whitch was sold? And if, to whom?


And are there photos of Minnie and Miechen together? And the two couples (Minnie-AlexanderIII and Miechen-Vladimir)?

Thank you
Only group-photos.

Can group-photos be posted, please? :)


The Wittlesbachs / Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« on: November 03, 2006, 12:55:19 PM »
But she was known as Louise, not Amelie.

Yes, I know! :)

It's just that to me is some liknes there! :-\


Rulers Prior to Nicholas II / Re: Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich
« on: November 03, 2006, 06:53:30 AM »
But, I have a question also on GD Konstantin; while he was a Governor in Poland, was he perhaps a "patron" to Frederick Chopin?
I'm asking this because, when I was watching a movie on Chopin, it was said that when GD Konstantin had a fit, Chopin was called and was forced to play a violin.
It was this true?



Rulers Prior to Nicholas II / Re: Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich
« on: November 03, 2006, 06:15:51 AM »

Rulers Prior to Nicholas II / Re: Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich
« on: November 03, 2006, 06:06:09 AM »
The second part:

Governor of Poland
Constantine's importance in political history dates from when his brother, Tsar Alexander, entrusted him in Congress Kingdom of Poland as viceroy, with a task of the militarization and discipline of Poland. In the Congress Poland created by Alexander he received the post of commander-in-chief of the forces of the kingdom; to which was added later (1819) the command of the Lithuanian troops and of those of the Russian provinces that had formerly belonged to the kingdom of Poland.
His efforts to strengthen the secret police (Ochrana) and suppress the Polish patriotic movements led to popular discontent among his subjects. Ill-tempered and brutal, also persecuted the liberal opposition, replaced Poles with Russians on important posts in local administration and the army, and often insulted and assaulted his subordinates, which led to conflicts within the officer corps. Finally, his disobedience of the constitution he was personally proud of conflicted him with the Polish parliament, until then mostly dominated by supporters of the personal union with Russia. In Poland, he was viewed as a tyrant and, hated by both the military and civilian population. In Polish literature Constantine is represented as a cruel and despotic person.
After nineteen years of separation, the marriage of Constantine and Juliane was formally annulled on 20 March 1820. Two months later, on 27 May 1820 Constantine married with the Countess Joanna Grudzińska, who was given the title of Her Serenity Princess Lowicka. Connected with this was his renunciation of any claim to the Russian succession, which was formally completed in 1822. After this marriage, in the late 1820s, he became increasingly attached to his new home, Poland.
One inch from the throne
When Alexander I died on the 1st of December 1825, the Grand Duke Nicholas had him proclaimed Emperor in St Petersburg, in connection with which occurred the revolt of the Russian Liberals, known as the rising of the Dekabrists. Constantine's attitude in this has been seen as more correct than the uncertain attitude of his brother.
Under the Emperor Nicholas, Constantine maintained his position in Poland. Differences soon arose between him and his brother in consequence of the share taken by the Poles in the Dekabrist conspiracy. Constantine hindered the unveiling of the organized plotting for independence which had been going on in Poland for many years, and held obstinately to the belief that the army and the bureaucracy were loyally devoted to the Russian empire. The eastern policy of the Tsar and the Turkish War of 1828 and 1829 caused a fresh breach between them. It was due to the opposition of Constantine that the Polish army took no part in this war, so that there was in consequence no Russo-Polish comradeship in arms, such as might perhaps have led to reconciliation between the two nations.
The insurrection at Warsaw in November 1830 took Constantine completely by surprise. It was because of his utter failure to grasp the situation that the Polish regiments passed over to the revolutionaries; and during the revolution he showed himself as incompetent as he was lacking in judgment. He was considered an enemy by most of the Polish insurgents. One of the opening events of the uprising included an assassination attempt on him. His soldiers were victorious, however he did not live to see the suppression of the revolution.
He died of cholera at Vitebsk on the 27th of June 1831.

Rulers Prior to Nicholas II / Re: Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich
« on: November 03, 2006, 06:05:13 AM »

I think that GD Konstantin don't have his own tread. I know that there is a tread on Anna Feodorovna and that there is some information on GD Konstantin, but why not a tread of his own.

So, here is a bio on GD Konstantin:

Constantine Pavlovich Romanov (27 April, 1779–27 June, 1831), Grand Duke and Tsarevich of Russia, was prepared by his grandmother, Catherine the Great, to become an emperor of the would-be restored Byzantine Empire. Although he was never crowned, he is sometimes listed among the Russian emperors as Constantine I. He was mainly known for his abdication from the throne in 1825, which led to the Decembrist rebellion later that year. In his capacity of the first Viceroy of the Congress Kingdom of Poland, he is remembered as a ruthless ruler.
Early life
Constantine was born at Tsarskoye Selo on 27 April 1779. Of the sons born to the Tsar Paul Petrovich and his wife Maria Feodorovna, the Princess of Württemberg, none more closely resembled his father in bodily and mental characteristics than did the second, Constantine Pavlovich.
The direction of the boy's upbringing was entirely in the hands of his grandmother, the Empress Catherine II. As in the case of her eldest grandson (afterwards the Emperor Alexander I), she regulated every detail of his physical and mental education; but in accordance with her usual custom she left the carrying out of her views to the men who were in her confidence. Count Nicolai Ivanovich Saltykov was supposed to be the actual tutor, but he too in his turn transferred the burden to another, only interfering personally on quite exceptional occasions, and exercised neither a positive nor a negative influence upon the character of the exceedingly passionate, restless and headstrong boy. The only person who really took him in hand was Cesar La Harpe, who was tutor-in-chief from 1783 to May 1795 and educated both the empress's grandsons.
Like Alexander, Constantine was married by Catherine, when he was not yet seventeen years of age (26 February 1796), a raw and immature boy, and he made his wife, Juliane of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (Queen Victoria's aunt), intensely miserable. After the first separation in the year 1799, she went back permanently to her German home in 1801, the victim of a frivolous intrigue, in the guilt of which she was herself involved. An attempt made by Constantine in 1814 to win her back to his hearth and home broke down on her firm opposition.
Napoleonic Wars
During the time of this tragic marriage Constantine's first campaign took place under the leadership of the great Suvorov. The battle of Bassignano was lost by Constantine's fault, but at Novi he distinguished himself by such personal bravery that the Emperor Paul bestowed on him the title of Tsarevich, which according to the fundamental law of the constitution belonged only to the heir to the throne. Though it cannot be proved that this action of the tsar denoted any far-reaching plan, it yet shows that Paul already distrusted the Grand Duke Alexander.
Constantine never tried to secure the throne. After his father's death he led a wild and disorderly bachelor life. He abstained from politics, but remained faithful to his military inclinations, without manifesting anything more than a preference for the externalities of the service. In command of the Guards during the campaign of 1805, he had a share of the responsibility for the unfortunate turn which events took at the battle of Austerlitz; while in 1807 neither his skill nor his fortune in war showed any improvement.
After the peace of Tilsit he became an ardent admirer of the great Corsican and an upholder of the Russo-French alliance. It was on this account that in political questions he did not enjoy the confidence of his imperial brother. To the latter the French alliance had always been merely a means to end, and after he had satisfied himself at Erfurt, and later during the Franco-Austrian War of 1809, that Napoleon likewise regarded his relation to Russia only from the point of view political advantage, he became convinced that the alliance must transform itself into a battle of life and death. Constantine did not hold this view; even in 1812, after the fall of Moscow, he pressed for a speedy conclusion of peace with Napoleon, and, like field marshal Kutuzov, he too opposed the policy, which carried the war across the Russian frontier to victorious conclusion upon French soil.
During the campaign he was a boon companion of every commanding officer. Barclay de Tolly was twice obliged to send him away from the army. His share in the battles in Germany and France was insignificant. At Dresden, on the 26th of August, his military knowledge failed him at the decisive moment, but at La Fère-Champenoise distinguished himself by personal bravery. In Paris the Grand Duke excited public ridicule by the manifestation of his petty military fads. His first visit was to the stables, and it was said that he had been marching and drilling even in his private rooms.

The Wittlesbachs / Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« on: November 03, 2006, 01:56:38 AM »
What if she is Princess Louise Victoire Marie Amelie Sophie d'Orléans (1869 - 1952), daughter of Duchess Sophie Charlotte Auguste in Bavaria married to Ferdinand Philippe Marie Duc d'Alencon.
Princess Louise Victoire Marie Amelie Sophie d'Orléans was married to Prince Alfons Maria Franz von Assisi Klemens Max Emanuel of Bavaria.


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