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Messages - aron

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Iberian Royal Families / Re: The Spanish branch of the Orléans family
« on: October 04, 2005, 02:13:49 AM »
There was a also a stillborn son born on 31 march 1857. That makes a total of 10 children.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: The Spanish branch of the Orléans family
« on: October 04, 2005, 02:11:24 AM »
King Alfonso XII was first married to his cousin Maria de las Mercedes who died in 1878 after a miscarriage and because she also had tuberculosis.

In 1879 the plans of a second wedding for ALfonso XII with MARIA CRISTINA Francisca de Paula Antonieta, Infanta of Spain, *Seville 29.10.1852, +Seville 28.4.1879 , sister of Maria de Las Mercedes, where shattered because Maria Cristina died before the engagement. She died probably of tuberculosis.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: The Spanish branch of the Orléans family
« on: October 04, 2005, 02:07:54 AM »
Here is a list of the children of the duc de Montpensier

ANTOINE Marie Philippe Louis, Duc de Montpensier 1824, cr Infant of Spain 10.10.1859, *Neuilly-sur-Seine 31.7.1824, +Sanlúcar de Barrameda 4.2.1890; m.Madrid 10.10.1846 Infta Luisa Fernanda of Spain (*30.1.1832 +1.2.1897); their children were Infants of Spain
B1. FERNANDO Maria Enrique Carlos, Infant of Spain, *Sanlúcar de Barrameda 29.5.1859, +nr Orléans 3.12.1873, bur Dreux
B2. FELIPE Raymundo Maria, Infant of Spain, *Seville 12.5.1862, +Seville 13.2.1864
B3. ANTONIO Maria Luís Felipe Juan Florencio, Infant of Spain, Duca di Galliera, *Seville 23.2.1866, +Paris 24.12.1930; m.Madrid 6.3.1886 Eulalia Infanta of Spain (*Madrid 12.2.1864, +Irun 8.3.1958)
C1. ALFONSO Maria Francisco Antonio Diego, Infant of Spain, Duca di Galliera, *Madrid 12.11.1886, +Sanlúcar de Barrameda 10.8.1975; m.Schloß Rosenau, Coburg 15.7.1909 Beatrice, Pss of Great Britain and Ireland, Pss of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (*Eastwell Park, Kent 20.4.1884, +Sanlúcar de Barrameda 13.7.1966)
D1. ALVARO Antonio Carlos Felipe Fernando, Infant of Spain, Pr d'Orléans, Duca di Galliera, *Coburg 20.4.1910, +Monte Carlo 22.8.1997; m.Rome 10.7.1937 Carla Parodi Delfino (*Milan 13.12.1909)
E1. Don ALONSO d'Orléans et Parodi Delfino, *Rome 23.8.1941, +Houston, Texas 7.9.1975; m.Naples 12.1.1966 Donna Emilia Ferrara Pignatelli dei Principi di Strongoli (*Naples 6.4.1940)
F1. Don ALFONSO d'Orléans et Ferrara-Pignatelli, 7th Duc de Galliera, *Santa Cruz, Teneriffe 2.1.1968; m.Paris 28.3.1994 Véronique Goeders (*Verviers, Belgium 16.11.1970)
G1. Don ALONSO Juan d'Orléans et Goeders, *Paris 15.7.1994
F2. Don Alvaro d'Orléans, *Santa Cruz, Teneriffe, 4.10.1979
E2. Don ALVARO Jaime d'Orléans, *Rome 1.3.1947; m.Campiglione 22.5.1974 Giovanna San Martino d'Aglié dei Marchesi di Fontanetto (*Campiglione 10.4.1945)
F1. Don Andrea d'Orléans, *Rome 9.7.1976
F2. Don Alois d'Orléans, *Rome 24.3.1979
F3. Doña Maria del Pilar d'Orléans, *Rome 27.5.1975
E3. Doña Gerarda d'Orléans, *Rome 25.8.1939; m.New York 26.7.1963 (div 1977) Harry Saint (*New York 13.2.1941)
E4. Doña Beatriz d'Orléans, *Seville 27.4.1943; m.Rome 25.4.1964 Tomasso dei Conti Farini (*Turin 16.9.1938)
D2. ALONSO Maria Cristino Justo, Infant of Spain, *Madrid 28.5.1912, +k.a. nr Madrid 18.11.1936
D3. ATAÚLFO Carlos Isabelo Alejandro, Infant of Spain, *Madrid 20.10.1913, +Malaga 8.10.1974
C2. LUÍS FERNANDO Maria Zacarias, Infant of Spain, *Madrid 5.11.1888, +Paris 20.6.1945; m.London 19.9.1930 Marie Say (*Verrières-le-Buisson 25.8.1857, +Paris 15.7.1943)
B4. LUÍS Maria Felipe Antonio, Infant of Spain, *Seville 30.4.1867, +Château de Randan 21.5.1874
B5. MARIA ISABEL Francisca de Asis Antonia Luisa Fernanda Cristina Amelia Filipa Adelaida Josefa Elena Enriquetta Carolina Justina Rufina Gasparina Melchiora Baltasara Matea, Infanta of Spain, *Seville 21.9.1848, +Villamanrique de la Condesa 23.4.1919; m.Kingston on Thames 30.5.1864 Pr Philippe d'Orléans, Cte de Paris (*24.8.1838 +8.9.1894)
B6. MARIA AMELIA Luisa Enriquetta, Infanta of Spain, *Seville 28.8.1851, +Seville 11.11.1870
B7. MARIA CRISTINA Francisca de Paula Antonieta, Infanta of Spain, *Seville 29.10.1852, +Seville 28.4.1879
B8. MARIA de la REGLA Francisca de Asis Antonia Luisa Fernanda, Infanta of Spain, *Seville 9.10.1856, +Seville 25.7.1861
B9. MARIA de las MERCEDES Isabel Francisca de Asis Antonia Luisa Fernanda, Infanta of Spain, *Madrid 24.6.1860, +Madrid 26.6.1878; m.Madrid 23.1.1878 King Alfonso XII of Spain (*Madrid 28.11.1857, +El Pardo 25.11.1885)

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Monarchs of Navarre
« on: October 02, 2005, 12:29:45 PM »
Jeanne II of Navarre was the daughter of Louis X (1289-1316), King of France and Navarra by his first wife, Marguerite de Bourgogne (1290-1315). Marguerite was put in prison because she had an affair. Because Louis wanted to remarry, he had Marguerite strangled in her prison.
Louis thought that Jeanne II was not his daughter. It seems that she was very likely the daughter of Marguerite lover, one of the Aulnay brother.

Afther the death of Charles IV in 1328, Navarra went to Jeanne II because Navarra had had queens before and the crown of France was restricted to only men.

1-Jeanne II Capet (Navarra) b. 28 Jan 1312, Conflans Saint-Honorbe, France, d. 6 Oct 1349, Château DE Conflans Saint-Honorbe, France, bur. Abbaye DE
Saint-Denis, Saint-Denis, Isle-DE-France, France
Married 1318 and 1328 Felipe III 'Le Bon' Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. 27 Mar 1306, Paris, Seine, Île-DE-France, France, d. 16 Sep 1343, Jerez, Cadiz, Spain, bur. Catedrale de Maria La Reale, Pamplona, Navarra, Spain

1-Maria I Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. 1329, Pamplona, Navarra, Spain, d. 29 Apr 1347, Valencia, Valencia, Aragón, Spain, bur. Monasterio DE Poblet, Tarragona, Spain
2-Juana I Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. 1331, d. 3 Jul 1387
3-Carlos II 'Le Mauvais' 'The Bad' Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. 10 Oct 1332, Evreux, Eure, Normandie, France, d. 1 Jan 1387, Pamplona, Navarra, Spain
4-Blanca (Blanche) Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. 1333, Seine-Et-Marne, France, d. 5 Oct 1398, Neauphle-Le-Château, France, bur. Chapelle de Saint-Hippolyte, Abbaye DE Saint-Denis, Saint-Denis, Isle-DE-France,
5-Luis Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. 1334, d. 1334
7-Maria II Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. After 1335, d. 6 Oct 1341
8-Felipe (Philippe) Capet D'evreux (Longueville) b. 1336, d. 29 Aug 1363
9-Inez (Agnès) Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. After 1337, d. 4 Feb 1396
10Juana (Jeanne 'La Jeune') Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. Abt 1339, Evreux, Eure, Normandie, France, d. 20 Nov 1403, Guéméné-Sur-Scorff, Morbihan, Bretagne, France
11-Luis (Louis) Capet D'evreux (Beaumont-Le-Roger) b. 1341, d. 1376

Is this list complete?

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Monarchs of Navarre
« on: October 02, 2005, 12:17:30 PM »
Carlos III of Navarra was married in 1375 to Leonora De Trastamara (Castilla y Léon) b. After 1363, Epila, Zaragoza, Castilla, Spain, d. 5 Mar 1416, Pamplona, Navarra, Spain, bur. Catedrale de Maria La Reale, Pamplona, Navarra, Spain.
Leonor left the Navarra court with her four daughters in 1386 and went to her brother, Juan I. In 1389 Juan sent Leonor back to het husband after Carlos III had complained about his wife. Leonor finally reconciled with her husband in 1394.

1. Juana Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. Abt 1382, Pamplona, Navarra, Spain, d.  Jul 1413
2. Juan Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. Abt 1384, d. Abt 1384
3. Blanca I Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. 1385, Pamplona, Navarra, Spain, d. 1 Apr 1441, Santa Maria DE Nieves, Segovia, Castilla Y León, Spain, bur.
Iglesia DE Tudela, Navarra
4. Beatriz Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. Abt 1385, Pamplona, Navarra, Spain, d. 13 Dec 1407
5. Maria Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. Abt 1386, Pamplona, Navarra, Spain, d.  Bef 8 Sep 1425

6. Isabelle Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. 1396, Pamplona, Navarra, Spain, d. 1404
7. Carlos Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. 15 Aug 1397, Pamplona, Navarra, Spain, d. 12 Aug 1402
8. Luis Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. Apr 1402, Olite, Navarra, Spain, d. 14 Oct 1402
9. Margarita Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. Abt 1402, Pamplona, Navarra, Spain, d. After Sep 1403
10. Twinchild 1 Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. 1403, d. 1403
11. Twinchild2 Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. 1403, d. 1403
12. Isabelle Capet D'evreux (Navarra) b. Abt 1405, d. Abt 1450

Is this list correct?
By the way: Leonor gave birth twice to a set of twins:
Blanca and Beatriz were twins
and a (stillborn) pair of twins in 1403

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Spanish Royal Palaces
« on: October 01, 2005, 03:23:49 AM »
Which royals are buried in the Monasterio de El Escorial, Spain?

I don't have the source anymore but i found a notice that Isabel also had miscarriage in 1490

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« on: October 01, 2005, 03:12:06 AM »
By the way, is it true that children numbers 13 to 24 were mostly fathered by lovers of Maria Luisa (like Godoy)?

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Kings of Castile
« on: October 01, 2005, 03:10:25 AM »
Joana was banished form the court and went living with her lover with whom she had more children.
Wo was this lover and does anyone have details about these children?

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« on: September 28, 2005, 02:54:15 PM »
Thank you for sharing this information.
Where did you get it from? Most reliable sources (like the Europaische Stammtafeln) doesn;t give these pregnancies.

Garrett Mattingly's biography *Catherine of Aragon* (Boston: Little, Brown,
1941), p. 143, has this to say about Isabella the Catholic's family:

"Isabella not unluckier than most queens reared five [children], but lost at
least five others by stillbirth, late miscarriage, or death in early

This information was given to me by John Parmi Carsons

Iberian Royal Families / Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« on: September 28, 2005, 11:28:11 AM »
I once read on this newsgroup that Maria Luisa was pregnant for some 24 times!
I can only find 15 recorded births:

B2. CARLOS IV Antonio Pascual Francisco Javier Juan Nepomuceno José Januario Serafin Diego, King of Spain (1788-5.5.1808), *Portici 11/12.11.1748, +Naples 19.1.1819, bur Escorial; m.San Ildefonso 4.9.1765 Pss Maria Luisa of Bourbon-Parma (*9.12.1751 +2.1.1819)
C1. CARLOS Clemente Antonio de Padua Januario Pascual José Francisco de Asis Francisco de Paula Luís Vicente Ferrer Rafael, Infant of Spain, *Escorial 19.9.1771, +El Pardo 7.3.1774, bur Escorial
C2. CARLOS Domingo Eusebio Rafael José Antonio Juan Nepomuceno Gabriel Julian Vicente Ferrer Andrès-Avelino Luís Fernando Angel Francisco Pasqual Joaquin Cayetano Ignacio Manuel Raimundo Januario Francisco de Paula, Infant of Spain, *El Pardo 5.3.1780, +Aranjuez 11.6.1783, bur Escorial
C3. CARLOS Francisco de Paula Domingo Antonio José Raimundo Diego Vicente Ferrer Juan Nepomuceno Isidro Pascual Pedro de Alcantara Fernando Felipe Luís Cayetano Gregorio Joaquin Lorenzo Justiniano Julian, Infant of Spain, *San Ildefonso 5.9.1783, +San Ildefonso 11.11.1784, bur Escorial
C4. FELIPE Francisco de Paula Domingo Antonio José Raimundo Diego Vicente Ferrer Juan Nepomuceno Isidro Pascual Pedro de Alcantara Fernando Felipe Luís Cayetano Gregorio Joaquin Lorenzo Justiniano Julian, Infant of Spain, *San Ildefonso 5.9.1783, +San Ildefonso 18.10.1784, bur Escorial
C5. FERNANDO VII Maria Francisco de Paula Domingo Vicente Ferrer Antonio José Joaquin Pascual Diego Juan Nepomuceno Januario Francisco Javier Rafael Miguel Gabriel Calixto Cayetano Fausto Luís Raimundo Gregorio Lorenzo Geronimo, King of Spain (1808/14-33), *San Ildefonso 13.10.1784, +Madrid 29.9.1833, bur Escorial; 1m: Barcelona 6.10.1802 Pss Maria Antonia of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (*14.12.1784 +21.5.1806); 2m: Madrid 29.9.1816 Infanta Maria Isabel of Portugal (*29.5.1797 +26.12.1818); 3m: Madrid 20.10.1819 Pss Josepha of Saxony (*6.12.1803 +17.5.1829); 4m: Madrid 11.12.1829 Pss Maria Cristina of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (*27.4.1806 +13.9.1878)
D1. [2m.] Maria Luisa ISABEL, Infanta of Spain, *Madrid 21.8.1817, +Madrid 9.1.1818, bur Escorial
D2. [4m.] Queen Maria ISABEL II Luisa of Spain (1833-1868), deposed 30.9.1868, and abdicated 25.6.1870, *Madrid 10.10.1830, +Paris 9.4.1904, bur Escorial; m.Madrid 10.10.1846 her cousin, Inft Francisco de Asis (*13.5.1822 +13.4.1902)
D3. [4m.] Maria LUISA FERNANDA, Infanta of Spain, *Madrid 30.1.1832, +Seville 2.2.1897, bur Escorial; m.Madrid 10.10.1846 Antoine d'Orléans, Duc de Montpensier, Infant of Spain (*31.7.1824, +4.2.1890)
C6. CARLOS Maria Isidro Benito, Infant of Spain, Conde de Molina; he objected to the alteration in the succession to the throne to allow his niece Isabel II to become Queen, and he and his descendants [they and their partisans were known as the Carlists] fought for the throne for decades; *Aranjuez 29.3.1788, +Trieste 10.3.1855; 1m: Madrid 22.9.1816 Infanta Maria Francisca of Portugal (*22.4.1800 +4.9.1834); 2m: Azcoitia 20.10.1838 Infanta Maria Teresa of Portugal, Pss of Beira (*29.4.1793 +17.1.1874)
C7. Felipe, *Aranjuez 1791, +Madrid 1794, bur Escorial
C8. FRANCISCO de PAULA Antonio Maria, Infant of Spain, Duque de Cadiz, *Madrid 10.3.1794, +Madrid 13.8.1865; 1m: Madrid 12.6.1819 his niece Pss Luisa of Bourbon-Two Siciles (*24.10.1804 +29.1.1844); 2m: (morganatically) 1851 Dona Teresa Arredondo (+Madrid 29.12.1863), a balerina
C9. CARLOTA Joaquina Teresa Cayetana, Infanta of Spain, *Aranjuez 25.4.1775, +Queluz 7.1.1830, bur Sao Vicente de Fota, nr Lisabon; m.Lisbon 9.6.1785 King João VI of Portugal (*13.5.1767 +10.3.1826)
C10. MARIA LUISA Carlota, Infanta of Spain, *San Ildefonso 11.9.1777, +San Ildefonso 2.7.1782, bur Escorial
C11. MARIA AMELIA, Infanta of Spain, *El Pardo 9.1.1779, +Madrid 22.7.1798, bur Escorial; m.San Ildefonso 25.8.1795 her uncle Infant Antonio of Spain (*31.12.1755 +20.4.1817)
C12. MARIA LUISA Josefina Antonieta, Infanta of Spain, Dss of Lucca (1815-24), *San Ildefonso 6.7.1782, +Rome 13.3.1824; m.San Ildefonso 25.8.1795 Luigi, King of Etruria, Pr of Bourbon-Parma (*Piacenza 5.7.1773, +Florence 27.5.1803)
C13. MARIA ISABEL, Infanta of Spain, *Madrid 6.7.1789, +Portici 13.9.1848; 1m: Naples 19.8.1802 King Francesco I of the Two Sicilies (*19.8.1777 +8.11.1830); 2m: Naples 15.1.1839 Cte Francesco del Balzo (*17.5.1805, +15.4.1882)
C14. MARIA TERESA Felipina, Infanta of Spain, *Aranjuez 16.2.1791, +Escorial 2.11.1794, bur there
C15. FELIPE Maria Francisco, Infant of Spain, *Aranjuez 28.3.1792, +Madrid 1.3.1794, bur Escorial

Does anybody have some details about the other 9 pregnancies?

I have read that Isabel had at least 10 children. I only count five:
King FERNANDO II "the Catolic" of Aragon (1479-1516), Sicily and Naples (1506-16) as Ferrante III, *Sos, Zaragosa 10.5.1452, +Madrigalejo 23.1.1516; 1m: Valladolid 19.10.1469 Queen Isabel I of Castile (*22.4.1451 +26.11.1504); 2m: Blois 1505 Germaine de Foix (+1538)
G1. Juan, Pr of the Asturias, *Seville 1478, +Salamanca 1497; m.Burgos 1497 Archduchess Margareta of Austria (*Brussels 1480, +Malines 1530)
G2. Infanta Isabel, *Duenas 1470, +Zaragoza 15.8.1498, bur Toledo; 1m: Infant Affonso of Portugal (+1491); 2m: Valencia de Alcantara X.1497 King Manoel I of Portugal (*1.6.1469 +13.12.1521)
G3. Queen JUANA of Spain, *Toledo 6.11.1479, +Castle Tordesillas, Valladolid 12.4.1555, bur Capilla Real, Granada; m.Lille 12.11.1496 Philip von Habsburg, later King Felipe I of Spain (*22.6.1478 +25.9.1506)
G4. Infanta Maria, *Cordoba 29.6.1482, +Lisbon 7.3.1517, bur Belem; m.Alcazar de Sal 30.10.1500 King Manoel I of Portugal (*1.6.1469 +13.12.1521)
G5. Catalina, *Alcala de Henares 15.12.1485, +Kimbolton Castle 7.1.1536; 1m: London 14.11.1501 Pr Arthur of Wales (+1502); 2m: Greenwich 11.6.1509 (div 1533) King Henry VIII of England (*28.6.1491 +18.2.1547)

I know that Maria had a stillborn twinsister in 1482 and that Isabel miscarried a boy in 1476.
that makes 7 children>
when were the (at least) 3 children born?

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