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The Tudors / Tracing the Plantagenets
« on: August 29, 2005, 02:49:51 PM »
Hello all! Just me rambling on about inconsequential issues as usual . . .  ;D

Does anyone want to help me with this genealogical adventure? I want to try to trace the Plantagenet line of Isabella, sister of Richard, Duke of York (father of Edward IV) and the lines of the children of Duke Richard (Edward excluded). I would like to trace them to, say, the beginning of James I's reign.

Let's start with Isabella (1409-1484).
She married Henry Bourchier, Earl of Essex (1409-1483). These were their children (not including those who died young):
1. William, Viscount Bourchier (1427-1483). He married Anne Woodville, siste of Queen Elizabeth.

2. Henry Bourchier (d. 1462). He married Elizabeth Scales, Baroness Scales - did she later marry Antony Woodville??

3. Humphrey Bourchier, Lord Bourchier of Cromwell (born before 1443, died 1471). He married Joan Stanhope.

4. John Bourchier (d. between 1485-1494). He married Elizabeth, Baroness Ferrers.

5. Thomas Bourchier (d. 1492). He married Isabella Barre.

 William's Children:
1. Cecily - married John Devereux, Lord Ferrers (a relative of her aunt, Elizabeth Ferrers?) and had one son: Walter Devereux, Viscount Hertford - was he an ancestor of Essex, Elizabeth I's favourite?

2. Henry Bourchier, Earl of Essex (1491-1539). He had no legitimate children, but his natural daughter Anne had the style Baroness Bourchier. She married William Parr, brother of Queen Katherine Parr.

I can't find any info on any more of Isabella's grandchildren - any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.  :D

The Stuarts of Scotland / Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« on: August 28, 2005, 01:21:47 PM »
Here's a thread about these two Stuart queens regnant!

First, the facts:
#Mary II, or the Lady Mary of York, as she was then, was born on April 30 1662 to Prince James, Duke of York and heir presumptive to the throne of England, and his wife, Anne Hyde, daughter of Charles II's chancellor, Edward Hyde, Earl of Clarendon. The Lady Anne of York was born on 6 February 1665. Though Anne Hyde produced many other children, only Mary and Anne survived. Charles II, whose wife was childless, recognised that Mary at least stood a chance of becoming Queen of England some day, so he declared her and her sister 'Children of the State' and had them brought up as Protestants. They both became devoutly pious, especially Anne.

#Since their father's second wife, Mary Beatrice of Modena, produced no living children either, it seemed more and more likely Mary would be one day Queen. So, in an effort to get Parliament off his back (they were heckling him about a secret treaty with Catholic France) Charles insisted that Mary marry the person next in the line of succession after Anne - the girl's first cousin, William of Orange, son of their father's sister the late Princess Royal. Mary did not wish to marry William. She wept the entire day after she was told. William was 27 and Mary was 15. When the couple were being 'bedded' Charles II said with characteristic flair 'Now nephew, to your work! St George foe England, hey!'

#Now known as the Princess of Orange, Mary accompanied William back to Holland, where she soon became popular with the Dutch people. She was still, at this stage, heiress presumptive to the throne after her father. Sadly, though she conceived three times, she had no children with William, whom she grew to love dearly.

#Back in England, Lady Anne of York married Prince George of Denmark in 1683. He was rather stolid and dull, but Anne adored him. Even though it was her sister who was heiress, Anne was seen as representing the 'Protestant Faction' in England, especially after the death of Charles II in 1685. Anne conceived 18 times, but only one child, William, Duke of Gloucester, born in 1689, survived.

#In 1688, three years after James II became King, Queen Mary Beatrice gave birth to a son, James Francis Edward Stuart. Princess Anne of Denmark, as she was then known, had taken special care not to be at the birth so she did not have to admit the baby was legitimate. Instead, she spread the rumour that it was a changeling. The Princess of Orange, in Holland, had no idea what was happening, and Anne fed her letters, claiming the baby was not their brother. Mary, encouraged by her ambitiou husband, was inclined to agree.

#In the Glorious Revolution of 1688, William of Orange invaded England and James II fled with his wife and baby son. Parliament wanted to offer the crown to Mary, but William insisted he should be king, and his wife agreed. they became, 'Joint Sovereigns' - William III and Mary II, though the real power rested with William, which suited Mary well enough.

#During her reign, Mary fell out with Anne over the latter's continued friendship with Sarah Churchill. Sadly, the didn't make up before Mary's death of smallpox in 1694. William was devestated, and said he had never known Mary to have had a single fault.

#With the death of the Duke of Gloucester in 1700 aged 11, there was no Protestant heir to the throne. So the Act of Settlement was passed in 1701, stating that after William, Anne would reign, and then the throne would pass to Sophia, Electress of Hanover, a granddaughter of James I.

#Anne became Queen in 1701, by now grossly overweight and suffering from gout. She had no children, and her husband died in 1707. She eventually fell out even with Sarah Churchill. She died in 1714, the last of the Stuarts.

Now, opinions please!

The Stuarts of Scotland / Stuart/Stewart Readme File
« on: August 27, 2005, 05:16:56 PM »
Hello everyone! Tsaria and I are working together on this little Readme File of basic Stuart/Stewart info, so here we go! Let's start with a list of the Stuart/Stewart Kings of Scotland and England:

Kings of Scotland:
# Robert II (1371-1390)
# Robert III (1390-1406)
# James I (1406-1437)
# James II (1437-1460)
# James III (1460-1488)
# James IV (1488-1513)
# James V (1513-1542)
# Mary, Queen of Scots (1542-1567)
# James VI (1567-1625)

And now, the Stuart Kings of England!
# James VI of Scotland and I of England (1603-1625)
# Charles I of England and Scotland (1625-1649)
# Charles II of England and Scotland (1660-1685)
# James II of England and VII of Scotland (1685-1688) (continued to claim the English and Scottish thrones after his deposition in 1688 until his death in 1701)
# Mary II of England and Scotland (1689-1694) - with William III of England and II of Scotland, of the House of Orange-Nassau, a grandson of Charles I
# Anne of England and Scotland (1702-1714)

Despite conceiving 18 times, none of Anne's children survived. Before her death, the succession had been settled on her second cousin Sophia, Electress of Hanover, granddaughter of James I. But since Sophia was already dead, her son George became King George I and founded the Hanoverian dynasty.

How are they related to the Tudors?
Henry VII's daughter Margaret married King James IV - James VI and I was their great-grandson.

Some Trivia
# Every Stewart monarch from James I of Scotland to James VI and I ascended the throne as a minor.
#Mary, Queen of Scots, became the youngest monarch in the history of the British Isles when she became Queen aged 6 days old.
#It was Mary who changed the family name to Stuart when she was in France as the wife of the Dauphin Francois, later Francois I.
#James VI and I was the longest reigning Stuart monarch - 58 years as King of Scotland.
#King Charles II had 15 illegitimate children, the second-most of any English king (Henry I had the record with 21!).

How did they become rulers of Scotland?
Robert II was the grandson of the famous 'Robert the Bruce'. His mother was Marjorie Bruce, and his father was Walter Stewart, who held the office of High Steward of Scotland (from where the family derived its name). He succeeded David II as King of Scotland.

In fact, as stated before, monarchs from James I to James VI ascended the throne as minors, Robert II and Robert III were 55 and 50 respectively when they became king - very much spent forces.


The Tudors / Eleanor Cobham, Duchess of Gloucester
« on: August 26, 2005, 07:59:16 AM »
Here's a thread about Eleanor Cobham! Get discussing!

Hi! I was wondering if anyone could give me more info on the daughters of Juana the Mad and her husband Felipe of Burgundy?

Here they are:
1. Eleanor/Eleanora/Leonora/Leonor (1498-1558). She married firstly King Manuel I of Portugal, who had been married first to Infanta Isabel or Aragon and then her sister Maria, Eleanor's aunts. Eleanor married secondly King Francois I of France.

2. Isabel/Isabella (1501-1525). She married King Christian II of Denmark.

3. Maria/Marie/Mary (1505-1558). She married Louis II, King of Hungary and was later Regent of the Netherlands.

4. Catherine/Catalina/Katharina (1507-1578). she married King John III of Portugal.

Any info is appreciated (umigon and cimbrio, I'm looking at you!  ;D) Thanks!  :D

French Royals / Anne de Beaujeu
« on: August 24, 2005, 04:50:30 PM »
I don't know much about this woman. She was the daughter of King Louis XI and his wife Charlotte of Savoy. Her brother, King Charles VIII, came to the throne aged only 13. He was brought up almost entirely by Anne (she was 9 years his senior). She married Peter II, Duke of Bourbon and had two children, Charles and Suzanne. Anne died in 1522 aged 61. Can anyone give me more info on this interesting woman?

The Stuarts of Scotland / James II as Duke of Normandy???
« on: August 24, 2005, 04:26:44 PM »
I read that James II, while still Duke of York, was created Duke of Normandy by Louis XIV of France. Doesn anyone know anything about his? Why was James given this title? Did he use if officially? Thanks in advance.  :)

The Tudors / Elizabeth Woodville, Queen of England
« on: August 24, 2005, 12:18:40 PM »
Elizabeth Woodville (or Wydville, or Wydeville) was one of the central characters in the drama of the latter-day Wars of the Roses. She was the daughter of Sir Richard Woodville and Jacquetta of Luxembourg, who had been married to John Plantangenet, Duke of Bedford, brother of Henry V. She had a veritable army of brothers and sisters.

She was married to Sir John Grey, a Lancastrian knight, and had with him two sons, Thomas and Richard (there is some dispute over which of the boys is the elder - that's another story).

After Sir John's death, she was courted by the promiscuous King Edward IV. Finally, unable to convince her to go to bed with him any other way, Edward secretly married the beautiful Elizabeth.

She gave him 10 children:
Princess Elizabeth (famously, 'of York')
Princess Mary, died aged 16
Princess Cicely
Edward V
Princess Margaret
Prince Richard, Duke of York
Princess Anne
Prince George
Princess Katherine
Princess Briget

I would like to know your opinion of Elizabeth - was she a cold, calculating, manipulative shrew of a woman, or was she a victim of circumstances?

Tell me what you think!  :)

BeNeLux Royalty / Grand Duke Henri, Grand Duchess Maria Teresa & family
« on: August 23, 2005, 12:00:20 PM »


BeNeLux Royalty / BeNeLux Royal Palaces
« on: August 17, 2005, 06:14:09 AM »
Like the one started on the French board, here's a thread for pics of palaces from the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg.

I'll start us off:

The Royal Palace in Brussels.

French Royals / French Royal Palaces (except Versailles)
« on: August 17, 2005, 05:12:41 AM »
I thought that we simply must have a thread for the beautiful chateaux of France. Now, since plenty of very nice people have put pics of Versailles on the Louis XIV thread, there is no need for more here - but anything else, feel free to add: Chambord, Blois, Fountainebleu etc!

Here's one of Chambord:

The Tudors / Edward III's Children
« on: August 12, 2005, 09:54:58 AM »
This Plantagenet King, who reigned from 1327 to 1377, married his 2nd cousin Princess Philippa of Hainault and had 14 children. I wanted to start a thread about the children, too see how much people know . . .

Here they are:
1. Edward, Prince of Wales (the Black Prince) - the eldest child, who lived from 1330-1376, and missed getting the throne by one year. He married Joan, Fair Maid and Countess of Kent, his father's cousin, and produced Richard II.

2. The second child was Princess Isabella (1332-1379). She married Enguerrand VII, Count of Coucy, and had two daughter, Marie and Philippa.

3. Princess Joan, who lived from 1335-1348, dying when she was 13.

4. Prince William died aged less than a year . . .

5. Lionel of Antwerp, Duke of Clarence, lived from 1338-1368. He married Elizabeth de Burgh, heiresses to the Earls of Ulster, the daughter of his second cousin. They produced Lady Philippa, from whom the Yorkist claimants in the Wars of the Roses are descended. After Elizabeth's death, Lionel married Violanta Visconti, but died later in the year.

6. John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster - perhaps the most famous of Edward's children, he lived from 1340-1399. He married firstly Lady Blanche of Lancaster, his father's second cousin, who brought the Lancaster duchy to him. She died after giving him 3 children, including the future Henry IV. John then married Princess Contanza of Castile (also a distant relative), and she gave him a daughter, Catalina, from whom Catherine of Aragon is descended. After Constanza's death, John married his mistress of many years, Katherine Swynford, sister-in-law of Geoffrey Chaucer. Their children (born before the marriage) were all surnamed Beaufort and legitimitised by Richard II, though Henry IV later ruled that they could never claim the throne. Margaret Beaufort, mother of Henry VII, was a descendant of John and Katherine.

7. Edmund of Langley, Duke of York (1341-1402) - Edmund married Princess Isabella of Castile, sister of Constanza. They had 3 children - Edward, who died chidless, Richard, Earl of Cambridge (from whom the Yorkist claimants were also descended) and Constance, who married Thomas le Despencer and had children.

8. The next child, Blanche, died on the Black plague in the Tower of London, hence her name 'Blanche de la Tour'.

9. Princess Mary, born in 1344, died aed 18 after marriage to Jean IV of Brittany.

10. Margaret (1346-after 1361) married John, Lord Hastings. A member of the Hastings family also married Elizabeth, John of Gaunt's daughter with his 1st wife.

11. Thomas died young.

12. William died young.

13. Thomas of Woodstock, Duke of Gloucester - he married  Lady Eleanor de Bohun, whose sister Mary married Henry IV. The Dukes of Buckingham in the 15th century are descended from him.

14. Joan died young.

Anything to add, anyone?

The Stuarts of Scotland / Charles I and family
« on: August 10, 2005, 03:47:28 PM »
I beleive this was requested, so here it is!

Feel free to discuss Charles I, Henrietta Maria, Charles II, James II, Mary, Princess Royal and Princess of Orange, Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester, Princess Elizabeth and Princess Henriette Anne, Duchesse d'Orleans.

French Royals / Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« on: August 09, 2005, 04:45:34 PM »
The only daughter of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette, she suvived the revolution and married her first cousin Louis, Duc d'Angouleme, the son of Charles, Comte d'Artois. In 1814 when the monarchy was restored in France, Marie-Therese was in the triumphant procession into Paris. Imagine how she must have felt knowing that the people now cheering her had murdered her parents and brother only 22 years earlier . . .

BeNeLux Royalty / Grand Duchess Marie-Adelaide of Luxembourg
« on: August 09, 2005, 03:28:55 PM »
Born in 1894 as the eldest of six daughter of Grand Duke William IV of Luxembourg and Princess Maria Anna of Portugal. In 1907, Marie-Adelaide was recognised as heiress to the Grand Duchy, and became Grand Duchess in 1912. She was the first Grand Duchess or Duke of Luxembourg to have been born in the country.

However, Marie-Adelaide liked to interfere in politics, thinking it her right, and when Luxembourg was occupied by Germany in WWI, she had what some deemed a 'too close' relationship  with the German troops.

In 1919, she was forced to abdicate the throne in favour of her sister Charlotte. She became nun, calling herself Sister Marie of the Poor, and died in 1924.

Opinions, anyone?

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