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Messages - _Rodger_

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61
And another thing, you are the one saying that everyone involved in the recovery and identification are involved in a vast conspiracy.

It didn't have to be a VAST one, but one that merely took a fcouple of persons with a clear intent on how to do this to seed the site and the remains well enough to fool experts.  And that's what probably happened.

But experts weren't all fooled.  A University of Colorado forensic team also inspected the remains and also expressed doubts.

I'm sure you've heard the phrase 'Reasonable minds can differ,' and in this case, there is much in dispute.  

I'm sure you're well meaning, and have some personal feelings in this because of the emotions you've experienced when you met these people and seen the bones, but the science does not back the original claims.


62
Bob,

Like I said yesterday, I'm sure that a hundred bishops swearing on a stack of Bibles will vouch for these wonderful humanitarians, but I'm not just posting wack.

You can ban me.  That's your choice.  But all you would be doing is censoring well-substantiated published materials.  The fact is there is no way that the published reports of identification via mtDNA is valid.  

And everything hinges on that.  Everything.

I don't think the massacre happened.  So sue me.  

63
The so-called 'Yurovsky Note' was written considerably after 1919-1920.  In fact, it was forged.

Buranov, Y.A. 1994, On the problem of the different versions and historical validity regarding the Ekaterinburg tragedy, In Ekaterinburgskaya Tragediya: Tania Tsarkih Ostankov, Association of Ural Publishers, in Russian.

64
1223 base pairs x 9 70+year old skeletons.  Q.E.D.

65
Well, there are two problems with the scenario you've outlined regarding the disposal of the alleged 2 missing 'remains.'

First, they claimed complete destruction.  They literally said that they had cremated the remains and there was nothing left, including clothing, and more importantly, NO TEETH!  

Secondly, that area has been excavated repeatedly for the past century for remains, and nothing credible has been found.

One can conclude from the second point that the first point is correct.  But then that begs the question regarding the ability to cremate remains completely under the conditions described by the 'witnesses.'  

Given the inability of search parties to locate the remains, then a third pathway, so to speak, has to be considered in the absence of any credible evidence.

66
Thank you for asking that well founded question.

It's worth examining carefully.

I believe Knight, Zhivotovsky, Kass, Litwin, Green, White and Mountain explain it far better than I can in the body of their text.  Additionally, they have cited a number of sources, including Sokolov's own book, which help to explain their findings.

http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/titles/03014460.asp

Scroll down and click on the green box, that will take you to the abstract.  The full article is available on that page also.

In terms of why the precise number of remains were located there, well, that's conjecture.  But it's not a huge leap to believe that a Kremlin ordered D and D operation used the Sokolov book as a blueprint.  Why they would do such a thing is anybody's guess.  ::)

But the main point here is that I think anyone interested in this matter owes it to themself to fully read the Knight et al paper, and then decide for themselves what they believe.

67
Not only does Shay McNeal give some of the findings credence, so does Dr. Knight and his researchers.  The main operator in that sentence is 'some of the findings.'  

The 'discreditation' of the Summers and Mangold book came from none other than Dr. Henry Kissinger, who called it 'Rubbish.'  Impressive, considering that Dr. Kissinger's training and experience lies in International politics, political intrigue and espionage.

The strength of Summer's and Mangold is their systematic deconstruction of the Sokolov book, which I believe functioned as a very convenient blueprint for the D & D operation ordered by MVD Minister Shchelokov.

If Sokolov is right, then the remains found in Ekaterinburg are those of the last Imperial Family, because it was his report from which the remains were found.  

But, mentioned in the Knight report, it was Sokolov whom identified Grand Duchess Ella, whom Knight and Kass tested.  

The purported Ella and the purported Empress' mtDNA do not match.

So Sokolov was wrong about at least some of his research, if not all.

 


68
The Windsors / Re: Prince Albert Victor (Eddy)
« on: April 04, 2004, 06:03:31 PM »
Sorry if there's some confusion on that account.  A former poster here proposed that Alix was Queen Alexandra's daughter in order to build some sort of justification to explain his discredited belief system.

Alix was by all accounts and most likely the daughter of Princess Alice.

69
Rasputin / Re: Rasputin
« on: April 04, 2004, 02:19:16 PM »
I remember when that book first came out.  It was released to great fanfare and the headlines literally said 'Alexandra had an affair with Rasputin!'  Then Radzinsky put the kabosh to an extent on that sales line, and the furor died down.

But the seed was planted in the minds of those who merely read the bylines and assumed the worst.  The press has done great disservice to the Empress, but what's new?

As far as Rasputin is concerned, and maybe Penny will appreciate this, the Okhrana (which Nicholas didn't really have much control over) was no more reliable regarding it's motives than the Bolsheviks were.  

The Okhrana had motive to discredit Rasputin at every possible point, and the historical smear campaign against this man has continued more or less unabated to this day.


70
But wait!  I wasn't finished.  The machine went ahead and posted before I could finish.   :o

Yes, I am one of those wackoes who doubts the murder ever took place at all.  I'll keep my eyes open for Valmont's empty straight jacket, lest it be tailored specifically for my size.   :P


71
Hi Penny,

And here I thought I was being so coy about my own beliefs on the matter . . .  ;)

72
Actually, this board seems to function as an advertising and cheerleading venue for King and Wilson.  That's okay I suppose, but it's important also to bear that in mind.

I've read the book, but there are some serious issues regarding sources and speculation, and that King and Wilson may have been too reliant particularly on questionable Soviet sources.


 

73
Romanov and Imperial Russia Links / Re: Traveling in Russia
« on: April 02, 2004, 04:35:42 PM »
Princess Katya Galitzine also has a tour of St. Petersburg through her husband's travel agency.

:)

74
Methinks Penny has way too much time on her hands to dig that up.  . .  ;D

But Selma Blair ( :P) makes it all worthwhile.  Thank you.

75
Imperial Succession and the Throne / Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« on: March 29, 2004, 09:13:13 PM »
In case anyone is wondering, it takes only a single nucleotide difference to exclude a relationship.

To have a mtDNA match, every single nucleotide has to match, and there are more than 26,000 of them.


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