Messages

1

The Final Chapter / Re: One Hundred Years On

« on: January 15, 2020, 12:12:44 PM »

It may have all gone silent on the issue of Romanov bones , re-burial , church recognition , etc. But we will likely be getting an academic paper this year detailing the DNA findings of the recent investigation which ,among other things, will confirm the results of 2009 , place the family within a Central European ( ie German) DNA context , and also provide info on other Russian dynasties. If I had the link I would post it but it is buried on Anthrogenica. Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere.

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The Myth and Legends of Survivors / Re: Testing of Paternal (Nuclear) DNA

« on: February 06, 2018, 07:56:12 AM »

DNA : girls don't inherit YDNA. They inherit 50% of nuclear (autosomal) DNA from each parent, and mtDNA from their mothers . It's all  been tested,see below , and it's being tested yet again.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0004838

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Tatiana Nicholaievna / Re: Fake Tatiana

« on: December 09, 2017, 11:43:34 AM »

Vague resemblance ,but not much . Just another one to add to the collection of rubbish imposters (ie all of them). Isn't it seemingly easier for females to pass themselves off as other females ,as opposed to males attempting to do the same ?

4

Tatiana Nicholaievna / Re: The Spirit of Tatiana Nikolaevna

« on: December 09, 2017, 11:34:04 AM »

Anyway ,Tatiana 'called it' so to speak  in December 1917 in a letter to a friend.
'' There are lots of foolish rumours out there in the newspapers . You probably read them, but it is all nonsense . They even sent us a newspaper clipping which tells of my escape to America ! I hope you did not believe this . I wonder who is wasting their time on such idiotic delusions .''

Interesting. This is an actual quote?

A quote from a letter from Tatiana to Valentina Ivanovna , 9 December 1917 , Tobolsk. ( from 'Tatiana Romanov: Letters and Diaries 1913-18' , Azar and Nicholson).

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The Final Chapter / Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED

« on: December 09, 2017, 09:06:20 AM »

The ROC continues to:

1. Refuse to recognize that the remains which have been scientifically identified as Nicholas and Alexandra's son and their daughter (we assume to be Marie). As a result, the Church has left the remains unburied and unacknowledged.

and

2. Refuse to recognize that the remains which were discovered in 1991 and scientifically identified as Nicholas, Alexandra, and three of their daughters. As a result, the Family were not buried under their Christian names at their funeral.

The latest news on the subject is ..... the ROC will recognise the remains if 'comprehensive proof' is provided . They are closely involved in the lab investigation - they weren't first time around - and are not in any rush to bring the issue to an end in time for any anniversary (so they say). They want the final say on their authenticity . They are dealing with 'holy relics' and not 'ordinary people' (I beg to differ, but that's another story). They have doubts and many questions that need answering  . They are still questioning how the Tsar can have had such appalling teeth ! Yes , really . Have they not read accounts of his aversion to dentistry and his chain smoking ? Or any accounts of his personal life for that matter ? One wonders .  On the plus side the investigation seems likely to be completed in 2018.

Unfortunately, many people who are made saints are portrayed as 'angels' in their real lives and have to be seen as pure, innocent, individuals. They may have not been 'ordinary' people-no matter how much they wanted to-but they were people. The Church seem to forget that.

I suggest they read the private correspondence between N and A , and OTMA's letters and diaries too . That would be a start , although they may not enjoy what they find. They were flawed and complex people  just like everybody else. But if an institution , or individuals , wish to focus on the spiritual rather than the human , the scientific and the historical ...that's where we part company.

6

The Final Chapter / Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED

« on: December 07, 2017, 10:58:28 AM »

The ROC continues to:

1. Refuse to recognize that the remains which have been scientifically identified as Nicholas and Alexandra's son and their daughter (we assume to be Marie). As a result, the Church has left the remains unburied and unacknowledged.

and

2. Refuse to recognize that the remains which were discovered in 1991 and scientifically identified as Nicholas, Alexandra, and three of their daughters. As a result, the Family were not buried under their Christian names at their funeral.

The latest news on the subject is ..... the ROC will recognise the remains if 'comprehensive proof' is provided . They are closely involved in the lab investigation - they weren't first time around - and are not in any rush to bring the issue to an end in time for any anniversary (so they say). They want the final say on their authenticity . They are dealing with 'holy relics' and not 'ordinary people' (I beg to differ, but that's another story). They have doubts and many questions that need answering  . They are still questioning how the Tsar can have had such appalling teeth ! Yes , really . Have they not read accounts of his aversion to dentistry and his chain smoking ? Or any accounts of his personal life for that matter ? One wonders .  On the plus side the investigation seems likely to be completed in 2018.

7

The Final Chapter / Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED

« on: October 14, 2017, 07:12:21 AM »

Lisa : The church will almost certainly officially recognise Alexei and Marie and re-unite them with the rest of the family in an elaborate ceremony, maybe July 2018,  and we will all breathe a sigh of relief .. but we won't soon forget that the Church kept Alexei and Marie in a box on a shelf 'in storage' for a decade, and this after a scientific study had already identified them as being the Tsar's children.

8

The Final Chapter / Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED

« on: September 11, 2017, 10:36:30 AM »

The ROC have stated there will be a conference late this year, or early next, where initial findings of the genetic investigation will be made public . What are the odds now that  internment of ALL the remains together in one place won't happen in July 2018 as predicted?

9

Romanov and Imperial Russia Links / Re: Royals who are related to the Romanov ancstors

« on: August 31, 2017, 07:26:03 AM »

These people who were or are of part of a royal bloodline by ancestry do exist such as

... most modern Europeans, who all are descendants of Charlemagne (and of nearly everyone else who lived and produced enduring bloodlines in the 9th century)! See https://www.theguardian.com/science/commentisfree/2015/may/24/business-genetic-ancestry-charlemagne-adam-rutherford

You don't have to be German princesses debased to live in Bas-Canada to claim that.

Stop posting this nonsense about commonplace bloodlines and rather dig yourself down in the more interesting question of where the Romanov bloodline came from, before 1347. A good place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Romanov#House_of_Romanov Baltic Prussia (as the ancestral legend says) or Novgorod (according to the historian Veselovskiy)?

Also , anyone with substantial British ancestry is  likely to have Edward III as an ancestor. It took me a while but I eventually found my own link to him . Nothing unusual or especially meaningful about it.

10

The Final Chapter / Re: People Being 'Horrified' by OTMAA's Murders?

« on: August 31, 2017, 07:08:34 AM »

OTMAA were  mysterious , distant figures to most people I guess , even to Russians, especially OTMA  . The Tsars death would have been more meaningful to them.
On Rappaport : I have enjoyed her work but she is prone to romanticism and overstatement occasionally , especially on camera . There is a tendency to project our modern revulsion back to those times. After all , OTMAA are better known now, and sympathised with, more than ever before .

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The Final Chapter / Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED

« on: June 06, 2017, 05:31:54 AM »

We were told an announcement would be made  on this matter in the second quarter of 2017 . From today that gives them three weeks , although maybe they will wait until 17 July. It will be fascinating to see how this plays out over the next 12 months. The family will surely have to be interred before , or more likely on , 17 July 1918 , but where is anybodys guess.

12

Having Fun! / Re: Then and now (Locations, clothes, etc)

« on: June 06, 2017, 05:18:56 AM »

It must be fun to walk the sites where the IF once walked.

Wish I could do that, but I'd have to win the lottery first 

In fact I have just been back there in late May , visiting Burg Friedberg again (where NAOTMAA spent seven weeks in 1910) , as well as the RO church at Bad Homburg which they also visited. I have to say Burg Friedburg was unforgettable second time around. I visited on a gorgeous sunny evening and had the entire courtyard to myself for about an hour . No cars , no people , just me wandering alone and seeing ghosts . The Burggarten was the same . It all left a very stark impression and one couldn't help ruminating about the unpredictability of life , history , the passing of time .... Indeed , between my last visit and this one , I had discovered my very distant ancestral connection to NAOTMAA, which gave me added pause for thought when at the Burg.
I did of course take a lot of photos and videos ,in similar vein to the ones I previously posted, and I will eventually get around to posting them .

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The Final Chapter / Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED

« on: March 20, 2017, 10:13:05 AM »

Agreed . This renewed close relationship between Russian church and state results in extremely conservative (kind way of putting it) cultural outlook , laws , arrests and prosecutions .  And the saga of the remains is just another extension of that relationship . The remains will eventually be reunited , but on the Church's terms.

14

The Final Chapter / Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED

« on: March 02, 2017, 07:03:58 AM »

The ROC really needs to stop dragging their feet on this issue.  Science is science, and DNA testing as confirmed that the remains are that of Alexei and one of the younger sisters.  Case closed.

Science and religion don't always make for easy bedfellows ! To be quite honest when the subject of the Romanovs veers into the Orthodox realm of Holy Martyrdom , veneration, etc (as if often does)  I zone out .  But each to their own.

15

The Final Chapter / Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED

« on: February 27, 2017, 05:53:00 AM »

I do not think it matters much which is which. They have all been found, and each is known unto God.

I have anyway read that it is by no means certain that all the remains of the original nine bodies have been assigned to the correct coffins. Quite possibly part of Alexei Trupp has been buried with Nicholas. But Trupp was literally loyal to the last, and I do not think Nicholas would have minded.

What I think is more important than these endless arguments is that there should be a proper memorial for the Romanovs whose bodies have never been found, and those of the Imperial Family's household who were shot separately from them after arriving in Ekaterinburg. I have no particular view on where that should be, but within the Peter and Paul Cathedral would seem most appropriate, given that the Imperial Family are there, and the four Grand Dukes shot in the Fortress in January 1919 have no known graves.

Ann

Ann

I think they won't go back to the fortress but to Yekaterinberg instead  because I doubt the ROC will accept the fortess as a suitable resting place. It doesn't matter that much  but I'd rather they stayed in St Petersburg. We shall see.