Messages

1336

The Hohenzollern / Re: German Royal Palaces, Castles and Homes

« on: October 30, 2004, 12:36:51 PM »

I too was in Potsdam in the mid 80s and the taupy-gray of all the buildings, ruins from the war, and totally faded glory of what wasn't in ruins was a sight to behold. It seemed a combination of sadness, ugliness, and withered beauty that was, in a strange way, romatically attractive. Europe before McDonald's for sure.

Arturo, going back to the original post, did Wilhelm II build or rebuild these palaces as suggested in the TV show? I thought not. I know he "remodeled" the grand entry hall in the Neues Palais with semi precious raw stone work.

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The Hohenzollern / Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II

« on: October 30, 2004, 12:31:14 PM »

Yes, Vicky was a very talented painter, sketcher, and water colorist. My favorite is her piece depicting the misery of the crimean war. It is stunning in its emotion, compassion, and realism. Was she ever professionally schooled in the fine arts?

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The Hohenzollern / Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I

« on: October 30, 2004, 12:26:25 PM »

Yes, Arturo, but (while this dialog is heavily discussed on another thread) I continue to be amazed at the belief, even before DNA, that a person would NOT be recognizeable after such a time. Nearly every pre-movie screen entertainment shows grade school pics of celebs to see if the audience can identify. And most of the time, they are dead ringers. People do not change so much from age 11 to 18 to not be recognized! Even after a trauma. I find the hoax by Anna to have been furthered by people willing to ID her who may have had something to gain as well.

1339

The Hesse-Darmstadts (Hesse and by Rhine) / Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain

« on: October 28, 2004, 02:49:13 PM »

When did the men stop wearing crowns in public and in pictures? In all the photos since photography began, men had bare heads, with the infrequent exception of a hat. Yet, in middle ages, kings and princes and dukes are often depicted with a simple crown or headband type jeweled ornamentation. What triggered the switch that crowns were/are only worn by the royal women?

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The Hesse-Darmstadts (Hesse and by Rhine) / Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain

« on: October 28, 2004, 02:21:25 PM »

Isn't the common phrase "kiss of death" attributed to the comment by the British prime minister after he heard that Princess Alice, after learning that her child sick with typhoid was starting to recover, kissed him and then caught the disease and ulitimatey died?

1341

Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna / Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..

« on: October 28, 2004, 02:13:23 PM »

Yes, of course, tons of homosexuals married and had children, royal and commoner, then and now. "Proof" of Sergei's interests are, as with most pre-1970's lifestyles, are well locked up in a closet. Hearsay among people who I know who were global travellers and elitists during the 20's and 30's have said "everyone" knew about Sergei. Empirically, Ella became more and more committed to her faith and religion, a common result of a spouse who is not the target of the other's affection. From all accounts of how they lived, their relationship was greatly platonic. Ella wanted to be near her sister, and probably considered marriage and all that went with it, secondary.
All that being said, she and W would have made a smashing couple. He with his pomp and lofiness and her with her subtley serene and intense beauty and manner. Semi opposites that could have created a massively impressive court. Had Ella been the Kaiserin, she very likely would have picked up the agenda of Vicky. She very much loved Vicky, and any children would have had a better relationship with their grandmother.
By the by, W is also not without rumors of being gay. In his case, he clearly met the challenge of producing a large family.

1342

Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna / Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..

« on: October 28, 2004, 09:41:42 AM »

Ella truly was a perfect match for W. With sisters as wives of the two great European empires, a greater effort would have been in place to ensure compromise and peace. W was like a spoiled child who needed some strength at his side...who he chose. He was rebellious against his parents, but not those who he picked as his inner circle. In fact, he was quite accomodating and yeilding. Such a union would likely have furthered the popularity of the German royal family which was almost completely shouldered by Princess Cecilie. A mother-in-law/daughter-in-law combination of Cecilie and Ella would have been awesome (assuming W and Ella's son would have picked Cecilie!). The English royals would have been most pleased.
And, Ella was not the reason she and Sergei were childless. Sergei was most assuredly gay and, hence, not very likely to have spent much "romance" time poor Ella.

1343

The Hohenzollern / Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I

« on: October 27, 2004, 04:27:08 PM »

GrandduchessElla provided a wonderful summary earlier in this topic thread.
Princess Cecilie was truly the "fairytale princess" of the early 20th century in Europe. Beautiful, generous, caring, loving, outgoing. The German people loved her as did peoples from other nations.
Given the long life that Wilhelm II had and the fact that Cecilie died relatively young, had she risen to level of Empress, her reign would have been brief and hence possibly without many accomplishments. Nonetheless, as crown princess, she is one of the most memorable, quintessential princess in history.

1344

Imperial Transportation / Re: Hohenzollern - German Imperial Yacht 1892

« on: October 27, 2004, 11:43:13 AM »

I think the Hohenzollern was magnificent. Massie's description has some good detail, but we must remember that Massie is heavily anti-German anything in his writings. His "Dreadnought" was a symphony of bias opinionating. He does tend to put forth facts, but often draws upside-down conclusions.
Also, what about the Kaiser's ship call Meteor?

1345

The Russian Revolution / Re: Everyday life during the Revolution

« on: October 27, 2004, 11:35:07 AM »

I went to high school with a girl whose father was a teenager during the revolution and 2-3 years afterward. He spoke to our history and civics classes; very amazing. His stories did not at all reflect "live as usual". On the contrary, he witnessed innocent people being shot in the streets by the revolutionaries (both Menshoviks and Bolsheviks) just for wearing a clean shirt, the assumption being anyone with a clean or new shirt was bourgeois. Fear gripped the entire set of common people, especially in the cities. No one really knew who was a "spy" that might report them for speaking or acting inappropriately. This girl's father painted a picture of horror and fear that is indelibly inked on my brain. Interestingly, I have Cuban friends who went through the 1958 revolution....and their stories are much the same.
Yes, of course, people try to work and earn money to get food and provide shelter for their families in as much as possible, but the society was totally disrupted and murder and terror prevailed. The word "revolution" IS a violent overthrow. Not nice at all and not business as usual.

1346

The Hohenzollern / Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II

« on: October 24, 2004, 04:21:43 PM »

That is absolutely a good analogy. And, Wilhelm did everything he could to "soothe" the Belgian government for the trespass. It is hard for us today to look at a sitation nearly 100 years ago and understand the attitudes completely. Even better analogy to Kuwait/Iraq would be if the U.S. flew war planes over Mexico to protect itself from terrorists coming our way through Mexico. It would not be very appealing to the Mexican nation, but I would not think such an act would cause a world war. Also, it is normal in legal justice the concept of "no harm, no foul", meaning even if an entity is "victimized", if indeed, there is no harm done, then there ought be no or little penalty to the supposed perpetrator. I do believe that if Wilhelm was truly in charge and George and he had a better relationship plus the English government was less worried about German industrial growth and power, the Belgian situation could have been avoided. The bottomline may indeed be....was several million lives worth the trespass? No. That was only the excuse.

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The Russian Revolution / Re: Soviet Life - What Was Gained From the Russian Revolution?

« on: October 24, 2004, 02:17:20 PM »

The outcome of the Russian Revolution was actually in large part not much different than other revolutions. The French Revolution, surely, replaced one set of "dictators" who avoided attending to the needs of the masses with another.
Lenin frequently referred to the mainstream population as "useful idiots". He, like other revolutionaries, had as his objective one main goal that is universally common to those who steal it or get elected to it--power. Either way it comes, it usually does not happen without popular support. Once in power, a person can, with the aid of tyranny, go in any direction he/she may choose.
Most violent revolutions arise not out of a sense of human rights, but more out of outrage and anger. Pissed off people usually do not lose their emotion once in power; they seek revenge and then try to establish a system to not lose power.
When dictators get the power after a revolution, they must become tyrants because there is not structure to keep them in place. In a dictatorship, even a dictator's closest allies may topple him because...they can. Hence, dictatorships are usually also based in paranoia.
All this compared to the American Revolution wherein, a) we were separated from the prior power by a difficult-to-cross ocean and, b) the new leaders were truly less committed to keeping their own personal power than sharing it (rare individuals), and c) they created something brand new rather than grabbing something that was broken and tough to fix.
In terms of what causes a revolution....the previous comments have all been good. When a group just can't take it anymore and the people either back them or don't care, overthrows happen. That is in large part why the social welfare concept (created by Bismarck and Wilhelm II and furthered by Jane Addams in the U.S.) was so important to keep the huge masses of "have nots" somewhat content.

1348

The Hohenzollern / Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II

« on: October 23, 2004, 12:43:42 PM »

It is indeed ironic, but the losers always get the blame and when one of the losers is left "standing", all the blame seems to go his/her way.

However, it is worse for William. He actually did not push for Austria's demands on Serbia. W wanted Serbia to be punished, but everyone, including William felt the ulitmatums were too extensive for any country to submit to. William tried, in fact, to get FJ to lessen the demands, but to no avail. What William did do in response, was to get Serbia to agree, thereby avoiding a war. It is a famous quote by William, "We have achieved a moral victory (and war is avoided)". The Serbian crisis was smoothed over, but when Russia mobizied troops on the Serb border and France responded by supporting Russia, Germany followed with a so-called "defensive" troop placement at the French border....but had to walk across Belgium! The Belgium territorial breach gave England a reason to declare war. A total mess among nations who were like pressure cookers without the steam release regulator working well. In spite of what was the power of the monarchies, by 1914 the real power in capital, industrial giants, and war technology created WWI. I think there was little Willie or Nicky or Franz Joseph could do to actually cause or stop the war.

1349

The Hohenzollern / Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II

« on: October 22, 2004, 02:29:18 PM »

It is most true that Wilhelm was not the complete fool and war monger portrayed by history of 100 years. Like most of history's wars and conflicts, the sides always seem to disagree on who said what to whom and who started "it". There are plenty of correspondences that show Wilhelm begging for peace; in fact, his chief representative in London was in TEARS, begging the government of Great Britain not to mobilize against Germany in August 1914. In fact, situations got beyond the control of both Willie and Nicky and their ministers took the reigns from them, no question. Had either monarch had more direct control of the situations, the somewhat minor (comparatively) issues during the summer of 1914 may likely have never escalated to the disaster of WWI. The social changes that resulted after the war would have likely emerged as a result of a more peaceful and and extended process.
The attitudes of the Wilhemine era are changing especially in Germany, Israel and Norway. In 2006, an international conference is being planned to re-study and re-consider the reign of William both culturally, socially and politically. It should be interesting!

1350

The Hohenzollern / Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick

« on: October 22, 2004, 10:43:47 AM »

I love the Romeo & Juliet aspects to VL's romance as well. But, I cannot unearth very much information that would indicate the romance and wedding had any of the European or worldwide attention that we saw when Princess Margaret or Princess Grace or Prince Charles were married. Or am I missing it? Seems to me the huge gathering of royals would have been a storybook event that the media and romantics would have gone overboard about. Plus it appears both Viktoria and her Duke were quite nice looking, making the whole event so much more engrossing. Were VL's cousins the Grand Duchesses of Russia attending?