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Messages - HerrKaiser

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46


I've never thought of Friedrich as being much like Hamlet. In white uniforms he looks more like Lohengrin anyway!

Ann


Hi Ann,

Yes, I was just thinking that myself when I scrolled down and saw your post.

He is much more Lohengrin (German) than Hamlet (Danish);  and much more stalwart in appearance and not morose...
He is/was much more courtly and approachable, I think, than brooding and insuller and suspicious....  I can see Frederick laughing and dancing and sociable;  but Hamlet - ???

Larry

I agree. Fritz seems far more a Lohengrin than a Hamlet, both in appearance and character. It always has troubled me that a comment such as Eugenie's gets established as a truth simply because it was made by a notable personality. Not unlike Dona being labeled a "cow" and Charlotte labeled "brat", the verified comments don't always (maybe rarely?) reflect the true nature of the person being commented about.

47
The Empress wrote of him as such in 1857 (following his visit to her and the Emperor) to  Countess Walewski:

"“The Prince is a tall, handsome man, almost a head taller than the Emperor; he is slim and fair, with a light yellow moustache—in fact, a Teuton such as Tacitus described, chivalrously polite, and not without a resemblance to Hamlet. "

Ah, so the reference is only relative to her impression of his pure physical appearance; nothing to do with personality, actions, or moral code.

48
A True Hamlet according to Empress Eugenie of France.

What was she thinking? Fritz a 'true Hamlet?' Anything but.

49
The Russian Revolution / Re: World War I - Reassessing the Blame
« on: October 15, 2013, 06:33:14 PM »
Quote
Interesting thread. A main aspect of so-called conventional wisdom over the past 100+ years in Anglo-American history and propaganda is that Kaiser Wilhelm II was a war monger and saber rattler. Yet from 1871 when the German Empire was formed, Germany was involved in only three wars up to 1914 while Great Britain was involved in 21 and France 14.

Wilhelm and Germany were edging toward world leadership on many levels. At the turn of the 20th Century, the most important medical, chemistry, and physics studies and papers were published in German first. The growth during the Wilhelmine era was phenomenal and GB and France were particularly fearful and jealous of that growth and domination in fields of science, education, architecture, and more.

The German involvement in colonization was very late and very small compared to the other European powers. This cannot be used as a factor in Germany's aggressiveness, but for sure Great Britain and France reeked havoc in Africa, Asia, and the middle east all of which generated ill feelings that helped fuel global anxiety and balance of power politics.

So it's a myth that Wilhelm and Germany were aggressively stirring up trouble. The war mongering falls squarely on Great Britain and France.

Good points, HerrKaiser.

But a question or two for you...Since Britain and France had so many more colonies than Germany, doesn't this also mean that engaging in more conflicts is an inevitable by-product? Of course you can certainly criticize them for creating this situation in the first place with their imperialist ambitions, but having far more territory naturally means a lot more territory to defend, and more enemies to protect against. Britain took up the role of world police just as the US has since the end of WW2. Many will argue that it's not our right or their right to do so, and certainly a fair amount of self-interest is involved. But who else is going to "clean up the neighborhood" so to speak? China? India? The UN?!

I think in these instances one could argue that it was less a case of British or French "war-mongering" and more the result of their jingoism and the naive assumption that the people from other lands they conquered would simply welcome their rule (Ancient Rome faced similar problems)

All that said I do agree the Kaiser tends to get a bad rap in this particular area. He seemed reluctant to expand the German empire the way other European powers had. His opinions likely influenced by Bismarck and Caprivi who minimal imperialist ambitions and found colonization burdensome. It's a shame that Germany's leader a generation later (Hitler) schooled himself in the Carl Peters philosophy of empire building and domination by the master race, rather then the sensible (and far more peaceful) approach of Bismarck-Caprivi-Wilhelm.


Of course Great Britain usually excused their actions the same way the U.S. excused its actions in Viet Nam. However, they were aggressive actions taken against other nations; and in the cases of colonies, it's hard to argue any difference. While these military actions were taking place, Germany was not doing so yet was positioned in propaganda as the warring nation. There is a conflict with reality, largely due to the very tight influence the British had on global media.

GB felt it had the right to dominate the seas and control it's empire with force. GB achieved the goal of "world domination"; and let's not forget the long held belief that such a goal is considered insane, provocative, and Hitlerian. That GB was able to gain their power base by force of military action that largely went unchallenged is, I feel, a key reason why GB took a very, very negative view of new nations emerging as competition during and after the industrial revolution.

50
The Russian Revolution / Re: World War I - Reassessing the Blame
« on: October 15, 2013, 06:17:40 PM »
Quote
Yet from 1871 when the German Empire was formed, Germany was involved in only three wars up to 1914 while Great Britain was involved in 21


21?  The only major British was I know of from this time frame is the Boer War.

I did not say "major" because it's not relevant. The point is that the British were fighting, "saber rattling", and otherwise involved in armed conflicts substantially more than anyone else during the prelude to WWI.

51
The Russian Revolution / Re: World War I - Reassessing the Blame
« on: October 15, 2013, 10:38:40 AM »
Interesting thread. A main aspect of so-called conventional wisdom over the past 100+ years in Anglo-American history and propaganda is that Kaiser Wilhelm II was a war monger and saber rattler. Yet from 1871 when the German Empire was formed, Germany was involved in only three wars up to 1914 while Great Britain was involved in 21 and France 14.

Wilhelm and Germany were edging toward world leadership on many levels. At the turn of the 20th Century, the most important medical, chemistry, and physics studies and papers were published in German first. The growth during the Wilhelmine era was phenomenal and GB and France were particularly fearful and jealous of that growth and domination in fields of science, education, architecture, and more.

The German involvement in colonization was very late and very small compared to the other European powers. This cannot be used as a factor in Germany's aggressiveness, but for sure Great Britain and France reeked havoc in Africa, Asia, and the middle east all of which generated ill feelings that helped fuel global anxiety and balance of power politics.

So it's a myth that Wilhelm and Germany were aggressively stirring up trouble. The war mongering falls squarely on Great Britain and France.

52
^^^^^

no one would know that from the portrait.

53
Is it simply the hairstyle or is there a resemblance to queen Mary?

Ann

Agree. This image has a Queen Mary style and look to it. In fact, I'd bet that amongst those who don't know Thyra, they may well think this is a portrait of Mary.

54
To me, she looks about as good as a person could given her level of anger, demons, and bitterness.

55
Yes, Eric, we've covered the fact that Charlotte signed a photo that you promote as a pivotal point in history, but the attitude of others on this forum is that her action in this regard should not be used to maintain a degradation campaign against her. Same is true for Dona; Prince Bismarck's remark was tacky and offensive and should not be used as an ongoing label for Empress Augusta simply because of your personal dislike for her and the way she handled her difficult family situation.

56
Not to beat a near-dead horse, but I started the chat about misuse and/or abuse of name-labels for the personalities being discussed in this forum, so here is a final thought. I fully agree with and accept the practice of using nicknames that are terms of endearment in order to clarify the individual's identity, however it's the pejorative names and name calling that is out of line.  "the Brat" to refer to Princess Charlotte and "the cow" to refer to Kaiserin Augusta are simply acts of disrespect that should not be used here.

57
The Hohenzollern / Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
« on: August 29, 2013, 11:12:41 AM »
Did Margaret and Philip not attend in mild-protest of the Catholic wedding?

58
Danke. Nicely stated.

Inter and intra family emotions and feelings can make a loving situation a pure hell even when the parties are good people. This happens in the best of famiiles as well as the worst. Caddish labels taken for granted can often tend to mislead and unfairly paint a person in a way that is not necessarily fully correct or understood.

59
The Hohenzollern / Re: Question about and/or Help with Picture(s)
« on: August 26, 2013, 05:30:09 PM »
I agree; she does not look familiar. 1902 would be too early for any of the daughers-in-law of WII, and the image doesn't look like any of them. Certainly not Irene or VL. Too young for Louise of Baden. Doesn't look anything like Vicky and Fritz's four girls.

Possibly Dona's younger sister Louise Sophie?

60
Yes. VMH was much an older cousin being the eldest daughter of Princess Alice ( 2nd of QV's children to marry). The only one older I think was Willy (Kaiser Bill) and maybe Charley the brat. All the other cousins are much younger (especially like Ena & Baby Bee).

Eric, please show some respect for Princess Charlotte and stop your obsession with calling her names. She maintained a level of dignity that many in her position of stress and difficulties would have performed much worse.

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