Messages

46

The Windsors / Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information

« on: October 22, 2009, 07:45:35 PM »

Hi my name is Margaret . I live in new zealand and I am  decendant from madam de saint laurent/ Duke of kent . They had 2 sons i believe and that is where we decended from. I do have some paper work from a family tree that was done some years back.

There are lots of people who claim to be descended from  supposed children of this union.  However, there The Duke of Kent had no children by Mme de St Laurent.  If there were any, they would have been recorded somewhere, as such children were usually acknowledged, as his brothers did with their numerous illegitimate offspring.  There were some who argue that the records were destroyed, but there would still be some mention in correspondence somewhere.  There would have been no reason to keep such children a secret.

47

The Tudors / Re: Actually Anne Boleyn?

« on: October 18, 2009, 10:52:03 AM »

One painting may well be a later copy of the other.

  Interesting that in your second link, Mary's hair is certainly a dark auburn, and not black.

48

The Tudors / Re: Actually Anne Boleyn?

« on: October 16, 2009, 08:01:49 PM »

Well is it certain thats actually the Duke of Sullfok?

It was painted around 1516, as it attributed to Jan Gossaert.  Anne was very young at that time-around 10-15, depending on which date of birth you accept.  It is probably  a wedding portrait.  (Mary and Brandon married in 1515)  Here is a picture of Suffolk in old age- it looks like the same person.

http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Brandon,Charles(1DSuffolk)02.jpg

Just a question- it's obviously not Henry.  Why would Anne have herself painted in  an affectionate pose with anyone else?

49

The Tudors / Re: Actually Anne Boleyn?

« on: October 16, 2009, 07:16:19 PM »

I think that the hair in the portrait does have reddish tinge to it.  I also don't see much of a resemblance to Anne Boleyn- she is just wearing a similar style of clothing that was fashionable at the time.  Anne had a pointier nose and darker eyes.  Like many people, Mary's hair may well have darkened with age.

At any rate, there is no doubt that this is Mary- as she is definitely holding hands with Brandon.  Why would they paint Anne in such  a position?

50

The Tudors / Re: Anna of Cleves

« on: September 15, 2009, 10:22:58 PM »

I always asked why did Anna stayed in England after Henry VIII got divorced of her, He didn't
imagine that his wife wasn't as beautiful as she looked in her portrait. Poor lady.

I think she was happier to stay in England, where her divorce settlement left her an extremely wealthy and independent woman, with her own homes and property.  I think she would have lost some of her settlement had she returned to Cleves.  But I think there was no incentive for her to return home, where she would have been under her brother's control once again, rather than have the freedom she obtained as an honoured "sister" to the king, where she could visit court on occasion, see her (ex) stepchildren (who were fond of her), and live her own life.

I don't think she was an especially pitiable person- think she fared rather well, under the circumstances.

51

The Hesse-Darmstadts (Hesse and by Rhine) / Re: Victoria, Marchioness of Milford Haven- part II

« on: September 08, 2009, 08:28:35 AM »

The whole thing is silly.  They did not need the consent of the British sovereign to marry, and I'm surprised that this rumour went as far as it did.

The Royal marriages act states specifically that the descendants of George 11 "other than the issue of princesses who had married or might thereafter marry "into foreign families", could not marry without the consent of the reigning monarch",.  Victoria was the daughter of Alice, who had married into the Hesse family.  Thus the British monarch did not need to consent to the marriage.

52

The Tudors / Re: Anna of Cleves

« on: August 18, 2009, 08:48:58 AM »

I watched the Doco by David Starsky and think what a sad life she had.   She was far from home, barely spoke English and had a husband who didn't find her attractive.   

I wouldn't say that her life was especially sad.  I doubt she found Henry very attractive either, so not being married to him must have been something of a relief.  After the marriage broke down she received a nice income, property, and a place of honour in court. She had independence and a life of her own- something few women of the time managed to achieve.  She survived Henry and had a place in the coronation procession of her stepdaughter Mary.  Her ex-stepchildren obviously thought well of her.

She had an opportunity to return to Cleves, but chose not to, so perhaps life in England was better than the alternative- an unmarried sister at her brother's somewhat repressive court.

53

The Tudors / Re: My Heavy and Fearful Heart.

« on: August 08, 2009, 07:57:35 PM »

Hilda Lewis wrote a similar book in the 1970s called "I am Mary Tudor".  It's long out of print, but a very good read, although it's been more than 30 years since I read it ( I was a young teen at the time.)  You might find it in a library.

I imagine your take would be different, but Ms Lewis's is interesting.

54

Alexandra Feodorovna / Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother

« on: July 29, 2009, 08:58:11 AM »

There's also a possibility that Anastasia could voluntarily stay with her mother. She has the personality which doesn't get easily attracted to men. I assume that would make her single forever and prefer to tend her mother. The other girls also had love interests at their early adult life which gives a possibility that they will marry before or after they reach 25.

I find it odd that anyone could say that a girl who died at 17, and lived the last 18 months of her life imprisoned (making her 15 when she was last "free") as having a defined personality that "isn't attracted to men".  How does anyone who never  knew her  at all know something like that?  She may have been a late bloomer.  I wasn't interested in boys until I was in my late teens (and married at 24). She may have had facets of her personality that were still developing and changing- in fact she almost certainly did.  And she certainly was more complex than people here give her credit for- none of us can be as easily defined or stereotyped as the GDsses are by some of the board members here.

Anastasia would have been a young woman in the 1920s and 30s.  Times were changing and I doubt it would have been easy to keep her at her mother's side in those changing times.  And I'm sure she would have found such a life stultifyingly boring and would have made her own way eventually.  But then I don't know her any better than anybody else on this board.

55

Research Russian Roots / Re: Was Nevsky some real family still in times of the Revolution?

« on: July 22, 2009, 09:49:04 PM »

I'm not sure what you are asking here.  Are you referring to Alexander Nevsky?  If so, "Nevsky" wasn't really his family name, as surnames weren't really used at the time- it was more of a nickname, meaning "of the Neva (river)".  The name was not used by his father or his sons.  He was a member of the Rurik dynasty.  He had several children, including sons, and no doubt has some descendants today, but none of them would be using the name "Nevsky".

Here is a family tree of the House of Rurik.  The later male line died out years ago,(leading to the Romanov dynasty)  but no doubt there are descendants in the female line and possibly earlier cadet branches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rulers_of_Russia_family_tree

There may be people using the name "Nevsky" today- I don't know.  But they probably have no direct connection with the Ruriks.

56

The Tudors / Re: Anne Boleyn

« on: July 11, 2009, 10:21:24 AM »

An I also knew that her character was attractive too:-)

Again, I'm not too sure about that.  One has to be careful about contemporary sources, because so many of them are biased.  But she certainly was NOT kind to Catherine of Aragon, or Princess Mary (referring to  the teenage girl as a "Cursed bastard", having her jewels taken from her, and according to one source, wanting her to be beaten into submission).  She was extravagant with money and clothes- certainly not giving lots to the poor as Catherine had done before her.  She showed no mercy to her enemies as well.
How much of this was Henry's doing, rather than Anne's is unknown, but certainly Anne did nothing to restrain Henry as her successors often did, particularly regarding Mary.

She was, I would say "complicated".  Intelligent, witty, certainly  inspiring devotion and loyalty among some.  But she had plenty of flaws, and was not exactly "nice".  That's what makes her interesting.

57

The Tudors / Re: Anne Boleyn

« on: July 06, 2009, 11:05:42 PM »

That's what I don't know about those paintings/drawings, jehan.Thank you so much for the new info! Whatever the situation is, we can still say that Anne is a very pretty woman. I'm so sad she died in the age of 29.  

In her own time, however, she was not considered particularly beautiful.  Some of the descriptions of her were written by her enemies, and so are biased, but generally the times considered the buxom blonde to be the feminine ideal of beauty.  Anne was sharp featured, dark with  a sallow complexion and flat chested.

I think that Anne's attraction was in her wit, her intelligence and her eyes (which even her enemies admitted were "black and beautiful").  She was "sexy" rather than pretty.  And that's not something that the portraits can generally capture (although Holbein managed to a bit, I think).

58

Olga Nicholaievna / Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals

« on: June 30, 2009, 05:38:35 PM »

She refused because she wanted to marry an Orthodox man, and particular, she disliked him (Carol of Romania). Also, OTMA liked the soldiers,they carefully noted their names into a different notebooks -- so, marrying against their wills they probably accepted as impossible.

But Carol was Orthodox, so that wasn't the reason.  I think that there was just no attraction on either side.  He was already having affairs at that time, and obviously he wasn't her "type".  Just because they were age and socially appropriate, it doesn't mean that there was any physical chemistry- and obviously, there just wasn't.

59

The Tudors / Re: Anne Boleyn

« on: June 29, 2009, 08:53:25 PM »

Paintings can testify how pretty she really looked like. How much more if we see true pics of herself?

Except that none of those paintings were done in her lifetime- they are mostly Victorian images and were done hundreds of years after her death.  The artists are just guessing and imagining what she looked like, possibly basing them on the few contemporary paintings that do survive (and that are posted elsewhere in the thread). 

60

Olga Nicholaievna / Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals

« on: June 07, 2009, 10:26:33 AM »

According to Chapter XVIIII of volume 2 of Spiridovitch:

Olga Nicholaiovna would not be separated from her family.  "I shall never leave Russia," she said to one of those near to her.  "I shall never marry anyone who is not Orthodox," she declared that summer to one of the Officers of the Standardt.

There were not just mere phrases.  One needed only look here in the face to see that she breathed sincerity, look in her clear and pure eyes to understand that as she pronounced these words, that the was saying them with the most intimate and sincere conviction, that her decision in these things was most firm.


[Translation courtesy of and copyright by Rob Moshein]

I am reasonably sure that Olga remained firm in her conviction about marrying an Orthodox Christian.

I am equally sure that while she may have meant what she said about not leaving Russia, it is not out of the ordinary for any young adult to make such statements that may not be realistic for a lifetime. Olga would probably have wanted to marry at some point, and if she was going to remain in her faith, she would have had to marry a royal from another Orthodox family.

I agree with you.  At 18, I said I was never going to marry at all (and meant it at the time!).  At 18, Alix of Hesse would never have given up her Lutheran faith (or even at 21) to marry anyone.  People make a lot of statements that at the time are very sincere, and if they never get a chance to prove it otherwise, it becomes gospel and one looks for the things that would confirm these statements and interpret the past to reinforce them.

I think Olga wanted to marry eventually, and I think she might have struggled with things, but she would have eventually compromised on matters of country and/or faith had the young man been foreign or of another religion. Whether she would have actually converted to another faith is something we will never know, but I think it is less likely than her leaving Russia.