Messages

61

Rulers Prior to Nicholas II / Re: Rulers priors to the Romanovs and their connection to them

« on: December 29, 2005, 03:36:32 PM »

Irina Kurakina (b.1903), wife of Prince Gavriil Konstantinovich
Ivan Kurakin
Anatoly Kurakin
Alexander Kurakin
Boris Kurakin
Alexey Kurakin
Boris Kurakin
Alexander Kurakin
Boris Kurakin
Ivan Kurakin
Grigory Kurakin
Simeon Kurakin
Andrey Kurakin
Pyotr Kurakin
Andrey Bugakov "Kuraka" (boyar)
Ivan "Bulgak"
Vasily Patrikeyev
Yuri Patrikeyev, boyar of Moscow
Alexander, Prince of Podolia
Narimantas (baptised as Gleb), Pr of Pinsk
Gédyminas, Great Duke of Lithuania
Butvydas, Great Duke of Lithuania
Traidenis/Troiden of Lithuania
Vitenas
David, Pr of Vilensk
Rostislav (for the last 200 years no one believes he is the ancestor of the Jagiellon dyansty, to which the above-mentioned people belong to)
Rogvolod, Pr of Polotsk
Vseslav "the sorcerer" of Polotsk
Bryachislav of Polotsk
Izyaslav, Pr of Polotsk (inherited through his mother)
Saint Vladimir of Kiev
Svyatoslav I of Novgorod
Ingvar/Igor "the Old"
Rurik

Phew!!!!!!!!!!

62

Rulers Prior to Nicholas II / Re: Rulers priors to the Romanovs and their connection to them

« on: December 29, 2005, 03:24:01 PM »

I can't answer the question of "how was Peter the Great connected genealogically (i.e. by blood) to the Ruriks, but I know several descnedants of the Rurikids married into European royalty. Anna Yaroslavna of Kiev married Henri I of France; this is perhaps the most famous connection between western royalty and the Ruriks. However, the Kurakin family descend directly from the Rurikids too; since the Stroganovs, the Trubetzkoys etc married in and out of royalty and each other there might well be a link between present and past. The Grand Dukes of Lithuania also descend from the Ruriks (intermarriage) and I believe you can trace them via the Jagiellons... Hope this helps.

63

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Princess Leonor and Infanta Sofia of Spain

« on: December 29, 2005, 09:32:29 AM »

I think Sofía might well be among her names (if they DO give her a few, who knows if she'll be only Leonor, though I doubt it), and Isabel. Mercedes might also be possible since it was the King's mother's name and has been in the family a few times already. Covadonga is an Asturian name though I don't know if they'd give it to her, but it's possible... time will tell.

64

Italian Royal Families / Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children

« on: December 29, 2005, 09:28:50 AM »

That's OK Bernardino; my research isn't at all academic and I wish I had a book on the Parma's... perhpas if I ever go to that part of Italy...  

65

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Victoria Eugenia of Battenberg, Queen of Spain

« on: December 29, 2005, 07:02:01 AM »

The qwedding reception was also total caos. Fortunately, the King's aunt, Infanta Isabel, re-organized everything and told everyone where to sit (even in the cathedral), but there was a huge hullabaloo when the new Queen Ena arrived with her dress stained with spots of blood. Queen Ena's reaction during the explosion was highly criticized, as she remained calm and cold, while it would have been much better if she had broken into hysterics (following Spaniards' reactions in such cases). Some of the victims were onlookers, even some were looking from the balconies while they cheered and threw flowers on the couple.

Mateo Morral came from Barcelona, was 25 years of age, manufacturer, dark eyes, medium height and slightly chubby. He had a moustache and was at the time elegantly dressed.

66

Italian Royal Families / Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children

« on: December 29, 2005, 06:26:45 AM »

I don't know much about her either. I suppose she and the rest were very religious (three daughters becoming nuns suggests this anyway). I've also read that Zita wanted too to become a nun in the moanstery where her sisters lived (I cannot remember how many of them had taken the benedictine habit at Solesmes by then, but I'm sure that not all three sisters wrere nuns by the time Zita married). I imagine Maria Antónia was quite a matchmaker. I've also read that on the occasion of her son Luigi's wedding to Princess Maria of Savoy in 1939, crowds gathered to cheer Maria Antónia, and that it was the first time an ex-monarch from the pre-unification period (well, in this case the widow) was the object of such a manifestation of simpathy. The link with the House of Savoy was quite strong since Maria Antónia's eldest step-daughter was the mother of Boris III of Bulgaria (he married a Savoy himself), and she was the sister of the maternal grandmother of Queen Marie Josè of Savoy (born Princess of Belgium).

Maria Antónia's godchildren were her grandson Otto and Archduchess Maria Antonia Roberta of Habsburg-Lorraine, daughter of Leopold Salvator of Tuscanny and Blanca of Bourbon (Carlist branch). I imagine this Maria Antonia was named after her godmother; her godfather was Duke Roberto.

Maria Antónia died in 1959 in the Château de Berg, in Luxemburg. Did she become a resident mother-in-law of her niece and daughter-in-law Charlotte I of Luxemburg or was she paying her son Felix a visit t his wife's court there?

Maria Antónia was survived by the following children:
Francesco-Saverio, Francesca, Zita, Felix, René, Maria Antonia, Isabella, Luigi and Enrichetta. Her daughter Adelaide (the eldest) died the same year as Maria Antónia,  the previous February).

67

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Princess Leonor and Infanta Sofia of Spain

« on: December 29, 2005, 05:29:56 AM »

Sometimes children were also given the name of their godparents at their christening, and it's not impossible nor implausible that she'll get Sofía among her names if the Queen turns out to be her godmother (I have an idea Queen Sofía is not the godmother of any of her grandchildren; the King if I remember right is the godfather of his eldest grandson, Don Felipe Juan Froilán de Todos los Santos (omni sancti) Marichalar y Borbón.

On a side note, I think an Asturian name (Princess Letizia comes from Asturias and the Prince is Prince of Asturias, so there's a strong bond with that Autonomous Community (Comunidad Autónoma)) might also be used; before Infanta Leonor's birth it was said that, if it was a boy, they'd call it Pelayo, the name of the Asturian leader that started the "reconquista" of Spain several centuries ago. The idea isn't all that ludicrous because the above-mentioned Froilán got his name after the patron-saint of the Galician town of Lugo, and the boy's parents are the Duke and Duchess of Lugo.... time will tell though We can only speculate.

68

Iberian Royal Families / Re: King Pedro V & Queen Stephanie (Estefania) of Portugal

« on: December 27, 2005, 07:35:16 AM »

Just out of curiosity, was there ever a plan to amrry Pedro V to one of the daughters of Dom Miguel I? They all married brilliantly in the end in my opinion, but perhaps a match between the two families could have sealed the breech between them; this idea happened in Spain on more than one occasion to seal the differences between the Isabile/Alfonsine brancha nd the Carlists; the last time such a plan was presented was a few years ago when it was suggested that C.P. Felipe of Asturias could marry his distant cousin, Maria Carolina of Bourbon-Parma, daughter of the Carlist pretendant. I don't know if there's even a shade of friendship between Felipe and Carolina even today  

69

Iberian Royal Families / Re: King Pedro V & Queen Stephanie (Estefania) of Portugal

« on: December 27, 2005, 02:11:41 AM »

Can anyone tell me why was Estefânia married to King Pedro? What was the political importance of the match? Because as far as I know the Hohenzollern-Sigmaringegn branch weren't too politically important at the time (not, at least, until her brother became King of Romania...

Did Pedro go into deep mourning for her?

Did he even consider re-marrying after Estefânia's death?

Were there any miscarriages while the marriage lasted at all? I know that in the most similar case, King Alfonso XII and Queen Mercedes of Spain there was a miscarriage which is not often given account of.

70

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy

« on: December 26, 2005, 11:19:37 AM »

Hi! Since there is no channel regarding the Iturbide family that reigned in Mexico for less than a year, I'd like to start a new thread, and I chose the Iberian channel since the emperor of Mexico (Agustin de Iturbide) was of Spanish extraction. I hope my post isn't unwelcome since they're not related to the Romanovs, nor any other royal family as far as I know, though they did marry Hungarian noble families.



Agustín de Iturbide (Yturbide according to some sources; this version was used by his descendants that emigrated to Europe and Australia, and was also adopted by a collateral branch that went to live in France) was born in 1783 and died (executed) in 1824. He was a national hero in Mexico for he contributed to the independence of the latter from Spain. In 1822 he proclaimed himself emperor of Mexico. He was deposed the following year, and he escaped to Europe (Italy and London). When he returned to Mexico he was arrested (he had agreed to leave the country and would be granted a pesion if there was no fighting). He was shot on 15 July 1824. His widow and most of his surviving children escaped to the US and some died there, in Philadelphia. A daughter became a nun; another son died in Mexico in 1856 and is the ancestor of the present senior member of the family.
Iturbide's family in the male line became extinct in the XIX century. His grandson, Agustín de Iturbide y Grin (Green) was adopted by Emperor Maximilian I (former archduke of Austria-Hungary), though he never took the surname "von Habsburg". He ultimately taught Spanish and French at Georgetown University.
One of Agustín I's descendants, María Josefa de Iturbide, died with her second husband in a concentration camp in november 1949 in Romania. Can anyone give me more information, photos of his family and tell me if through his descendants he's related to other royal or noble families?

71

Balkan Royal Families / Re: Obrenovich Family (except the Kings)

« on: December 26, 2005, 10:51:08 AM »

Wonderful! Thanks! I wonder if there are any descendants from other Obrenivici aside from Anka's Constantinovic issue...? Is there anyone from the Obrenovici family who claism the throne of Serbia/Yugoslavia?

Do they use patronymics in Serbia, like they do in Russia or in Bulgaria? I mean were they "Alexander Milanovic Obrenovic" for example?

Does anyone have the genealogy of Draga Lunjevica Mashin? Sorry to ask so many questions, I'm having a rather Obrenovic afternoon

72

Balkan Royal Families / Re: Obrenovich Family (except the Kings)

« on: December 26, 2005, 08:43:31 AM »

I know Natalia Constantinovic is an Obrenovic through her grandmother Anka, who died in 1868, but who are Natalia's parents? I assume Anka is Natalia's paternal grandmother, and Alexander Constantinovic, but I cannot find her parents anywhere! If you can forward dates of birth and death, and even marriage, I'd be most grateful.

73

Balkan Royal Families / Re: Obrenovich Family (except the Kings)

« on: December 26, 2005, 08:33:42 AM »

I don't think this ahs been mentioned, so here's a little piece of information: Princess Julia Hunyadi von Kéthely was the niece of Princess Herniette von und zu Liechtenstein. Julia's uncle, Jozsef László Hunyadi married Henriette in 1826. They had issue and have descendants even today, some which amrried other Austrian and Hungarian nobles.

74

Their World and Culture / Re: The Education of the Heirs

« on: December 25, 2005, 04:20:11 PM »

I know Nicholas Mikhailovich wanted to go to University (if memory serves me right) but the idea was poo-pooed by his father... To my knowledge, none of the Romanovs born during the time of the monarchy (well, Grand Dukes and Grand Duchesses anyway) ever attended university. I don't know about those who left Russia... i.e., those who at the tiem of the revolution were still quite young and their academic education hand't yet finished...

75

Their World and Culture / Re: The Education of the Heirs

« on: December 25, 2005, 06:45:10 AM »

I think some of the most intellectual Grand Dukes were Nicholas Mikhailovich, Konstantin Konstantinovich (KR) and Vladimir Alexandrovich... I don't think any of the women were particularly brilliant in the academic sense...