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Messages - trentk80

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The Greek Royal Family / Re: Princess Irene of Greece (1904-1974)
« on: January 07, 2013, 03:37:34 PM »
Yes, if the name was Sophia or Sofia, it would be the Greek version. My remark was made to the effect that if any of the princesses were named Sophie instead, it would seem to indicate being named after the Queen.

When I went and looked, it seems that the later Greek princesses (Alice's daughter and King Paul's daughter) were named Sofia/Sophia according to the Online Gotha.

King Paul's daughter, Queen Sofia of Spain, was named after her grandmother, Queen Sophie of Greece. The queen said this during an interview several years ago.

In any case, Queen Sophie was known in Greece as Sofia/Sophia, the Greek version of her name, not Sophie.

What I want to highlight is that yes, the Spanish Borbons have been involved in Foundations promoting literature and the Arts but their involvement with social causes has never been apparent.  This may be an indictment of Spanish society as a whole, but the family certainly haven´t made it their mission to highlight or promote the aleviation of social ills.

The Spanish royals have also been involved with social causes. Throughout the years, the King, the Queen, Felipe, Letizia and the infantas have attended and presided countless events related to the alleviation of social ills. They have visited and inaugurated hospitals, homes for elderly people, centers for disabled people, etc. For instance, the Fundación Reina Sofía currently has a project to fight Alzheimer's disease and the Queen has been involved in various activities related to this project, including several visits to hospitals.

While all very altruistic it really doesn´t say or mean a great deal to a nation with 6 million unemployed, a third of which are by now ineligible for state subsidies. 

My point was that, since the beginning of Juan Carlos' reign, the Spanish royals have been involved in all kind of activities related to their official duties, not just holidays (as it was suggested).

On the other hand, what you're saying is related to the current economic conditions, not to Juan Carlos' whole reign.

If I read Darius's latest message correctly, there are not  as many charities in Spain as in Britain, but royalty could still involve themselves with, say, education or promoting the arts.

Throughout the years the Spanish royal family has been involved with education and promotion of the arts. For instance, since 1981 Prince Felipe presides the annual ceremony of the Príncipe de Asturias Awards, which are granted to individuals with outstanding achievements in the Arts, Literature, etc. He's also the President of the Foundation. Throughout their reign, the King and Queen have presided countless events about education, human rights, scholarships, etc. For instance, since 1976 Juan Carlos presides the annual ceremony of the Miguel de Cervantes Awards, which are granted to outstanding achievements in Spanish literature. Since 1977 Queen Sofia is the president of the Fundación Reina Sofía, which promotes education, cultural activities, etc.

Of course, these kind of news are not sensational so most people don't pay attention to that, unlike the private lives of royalty.

So I disagree that the Spanish royal family only appears in pictures while on holiday. There are countless photos and videos of the Spanish royals doing their official activities.

To expand a little on my previous post, the Spanish have no real historic collective memory of Monarchy.

I think many Spaniards (not all, of course) are fond of the history of their Monarchy. The history of Spanish monarchs since the Middle Ages up to the 20th century has been the focus of much research in Spain, both academic and amateur. Personally I know many persons in Spain who are fascinated by it. However, the present royal family is not popular, but they are not seen as "history" or part of that "history of the Monarchy". They belong to the present, which is not so "romantic" (especially with the difficult economic situation Spain is facing). For instance, Queen Marie Antoinette of France was very unpopular during her reign, and two centuries later a lot of people are fascinated with her. Perhaps people will be fascinated with Juan Carlos two centuries from now.

I hope a new book on Maria Carolina and/or Ferdinand will come out soon!

I heard that a new Italian book on Maria Carolina is on the way, but it will probably take a few more years.

I'm still confused as to why the Neapolitan state archives stated that MC was sent away after the discovery of a plot against her husband.

I have checked the website of the State Archives of Naples. There's a part with a brief overview of the history of the kingdom of Naples and indeed it states that Maria Carolina was expelled after it was discovered that she plotted against the king. Just because this information is found in the website of the State Archives of Naples doesn't necessarily mean that it's accurate. Here it is and you can read its sources at the bottom of the page:

I haven't read these books so I don't know exactly where this statement comes from or how accurate these books are. That said, just because an article or book mentions a list of fine sources, it doesn't necessarily mean that the author made a good use of these sources. Some authors don't have time to read the whole books, so they just quickly search for what they want and skip the rest. Some authors read it all, but don't make a deep analysis. Some authors don't read or use some of the books mentioned in their bibliography, but still mention them just to give the readers the impression that their work is fine and well-researched with a large list of sources. Of course, not all authors do this, but it may happen and it has happened.

As for Harold Acton's 'The Bourbons of Naples', in my opinion it does a fine job in providing a general overview of the history of the Kingdom of Naples from 1734 to 1825, but it's outdated and, although engaging, the insight it provides is superficial.

The Habsburgs / Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« on: July 24, 2011, 04:24:04 PM »
It seems to me that what prinzheinelgirl meant was what Maria Theresa would have done had she been in Maria Amalia's place (being Duchess of Parma, not wanting the exchange of Parma for Etruria... but still loving and supporting her son?) rather than what she would have done or thought regarding the treaty of Aranjuez had she been alive during the Napoleonic years.

I would agree that their relationship was good.  All I meant was that there is no evidence that Ferdinand would have dismissed his minister(s) if he hadn't had the full support or indeed, the direction of Maria Amalia;

Ferdinand had Maria Amalia's full support in dismissing Du Tillot, but what's the evidence that he did it under her direction?

I am not aware that Maria Amalia was particularly 'outspoken' or 'headstrong' until she reached Parma and started trying out her power on her young husband.

From all I've read, Maria Amalia didn't try out her power on her husband. On the contrary, there's strong evidence that their relationship was good.

After all, despite her reluctance, she did actually go to Parma and there's no indication she did anything other than plead her case - there's no evidence of tears or scenes or arguments.

Do you mean there's no evidence of tears or scenes or arguments between Maria Amalia and Maria Theresa? If so, I haven't come across it in the sources I've read, but that doesn't mean there weren't.

Have you read both books, trentk80?  If yes, can you please give an overview of both?

I have read Maria Carolina's letters to Roger de Damas. Most of them are from her period in Sicily and later Vienna. She discusses topics such as politics, family issues, Napoleon, etc.

According to Wikipedia (sometimes an unreliable source), Lady Hamilton advised Maria Carolina on how to react to the threats from the French Revolution. Does anyone know if Lady Hamilton ever had any real political influence in Naples?

Maria Carolina's letters to her friend Roger de Damas have also been published.

There's also a recently published book, 'Un anno di lettere coniugali : da Caserta, il carteggio inedito di Ferdinando IV con Maria Carolina', edited by Nadia Verdile (2008), which includes several letters written by Ferdinand to Maria Carolina between 1788 and 1789.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Fashion at the Spanish court
« on: June 09, 2011, 05:50:22 PM »
Thanks, CountessKate. The illustrations from the book are very nice. Do you know what the purpose of publishing this kind of books of fashion plates was?

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« on: May 12, 2011, 07:13:18 AM »
I would have to say that the dress and hair in the portrait looks rather more like one from the 1760s or at the latest, the early 1770s - the stiff pointed bodice, the high hair are similar to portraits of this period rather than to the 1790s.

Thanks for the information, CountessKate. However, it seems that the wide hoops, high hair and stiff pointed bodice were still used at the Spanish court in the late 18th century, as shown in this portrait of Infanta Carlota Joaquina from 1785:

Is it possible that the style survived a bit longer in Spain?

And secondly because if it was Carlotta-Joaquina, why her husband wouldn't be there too? Maria-Louisa is in the picture with her husband Louis of Parma, so Carlotta-Joaquina should be with her husband the future Joao VI...

According to some authors, Carlota Joaquina is the girl who turns her face away in Goya's family portrait. This was meant to represent that she was away in Portugal.

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