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Messages - trentk80

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Iberian Royal Families / Re: Fernando VII of Spain and his family
« on: August 23, 2005, 04:56:00 PM »
I read that infanta Luisa Carlota and infanta Maria Francisca hated each other. Do you know why? And what happened to infante Carlos and Maria Francisca after they were exiled from Spain?

3. María Carolina de Borbón (1820-1861), daughter of King Francesco of the Two Sicilies and Infanta María Isabel of Spain. She married Carlos VI in 1850.

Do you have more information about her, Umigon? I think it's funny that she married the Carlist pretender, while her elder sister Maria Cristina was the regent of Spain and her niece Isabella II was the rightful sovereign.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« on: August 23, 2005, 02:06:27 PM »
Gosh, it's so confusing! A family tree is needed really, to see all the different links of relativity...

I'll try my best to explain the links, Prince.

King Carlos II had two sisters, the eldest was Infanta Maria Teresa and the youngest was Infanta Margarita.

When Maria Teresa married the French King Louis XIV she had to renounce to her rights to the Spanish throne. But according to her husband, her renounciation was invalid because her dowry was never paid.

When the youngest infanta, Margarita married Emperor Leopold I, it was her father's will that she would never lose her rights to the Spanish throne (because her husband was a Habsburg, unlike the Bourbon Louis XIV) and she would inherit her rights to her descendants, who were her daughter Maria Antonia and her grandson Joseph Ferdinand. So they had the best claim on the Spanish throne, according to King Philip IV's will.

On the other hand, Emperor Leopold didn't like the idea of losing the Spanish territories of the Habsburgs in favour of the Wittelsbachs or the Bourbons. That's why he made his daughter Maria Antonia to renounce to her rights when she married a Wittelsbach, but as Umigon explained, the renounciation was not valid. Moreover, Leopold and his sons by his third wife Eleonor were Habsburgs like King Carlos II of Spain, so he thought they had better rights than the Bourbon descendants of Infanta Maria Teresa and the Wittelsbach grandson of Infanta Margarita - who was also his grandson.

As we stated before, the chosen heir was Joseph Ferdinand, but after he died the next pretenders were Philip, Duke of Anjou, grandson of King Louis XIV and Infanta Maria Teresa; and Charles, Archduke of Austria, youngest son of Emperor Leopold and Empress Eleonor.

Infanta Isabel Clara Eugenia was engaged to her cousin, emperor Rudolph II. However, he delayed the marriage for so long that Isabel ended marrying his brother Albert instead of him and they became governors of the Spanish Netherlands.

Rudolph remained single for the rest of his life but he fathered many illegitimate children. One of his best known children is the cruel Julio Cesar, who liked to torture girls. His mother was the emperor's lovely Italian mistress, Catarina da Strada.

As has been noted, Felipe was very fond of Elisabeth (or Isabel, whichever you like), but how did she feel about him? And did she have a good relationship with her daughters?

Elisabeth (or Isabel) loved her husband. In 1564 she wrote to her mother Catherine of Medici: "Je suis la plus hereuse femme du monde".

It is also worth mentioning that it was partly because of her that the court moved from Toledo to Madrid. Elisabeth considered Toledo very cold, so Philip moved with his court to Madrid so the queen could enjoy a better weather.

French Royals / Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« on: August 21, 2005, 09:50:18 PM »

That's an interesting idea, Michael. I'm inclined to think that, as in England, a Duc is the highest title - then again, Louis XVI's brothers were title Comte de Provence and Comte d'Artois. surely if Duc was higher they would have been made Ducs? So perhaps you are right . . .

But as far as I know Louis XVI's brothers, the Comte de Provence and the Comte d'Artois, used these titles before the Revolution and Philippe Egalité's execution. On the other hand, I once read that Louis-Philippe was Duke of Orleans before becoming King of the French in 1830.

The Tudors / Re: Catherine of Aragon
« on: August 03, 2005, 08:18:20 PM »
Catherine married his brother Aurthur in 1501, but he died in 1502 so she was married off to his brother, Henry that year, I think.

When Arthur died King Henry VII was interested in keeping Catherine's dowry, so 14 months after her husband's death, she was betrothed to the future Henry VIII, who was too young to marry at the time.

By 1505, when Henry was old enough to wed, Henry VII wasn't as keen on a Spanish alliance, and young Henry was forced to repudiate the betrothal. Catherine's future was uncertain for the next four years. When Henry VII died, the new young king married Catherine. The marriage took place in the Church of the palace Friary at Greenwich on June 11th 1509. The marriage was a quiet affair since the King was still in mourning for his father. On June 24th 1509 she was crowned Queen of England in a joint coronation ceremony with her husband Henry VIII.

The Tudors / Re: Catherine of Aragon
« on: August 03, 2005, 07:26:57 AM »
I have a question that I should know the answer to, but can't recall. How long were Cathering and Arthur married?

In 1501 Catherine married Arthur, Prince of Wales, and he died the following year.

Iberian Royal Families / Fernando VII of Spain and his family
« on: August 01, 2005, 11:18:00 PM »
This thread is about King Ferdinand VII of Spain, his wives, his brothers and their wives.

Does anyone have information about Maria Antonia of Naples, Ferdinand VII's first wife? And any information about Maria Francisca of Portugal, wife of Infante Carlos Maria Isidro of Spain (King Ferdinand VII's younger brother)?

The Greek Royal Family / Re: Princess Irene of Greece (1904-1974)
« on: August 01, 2005, 11:13:32 PM »
I read somewhere that in the Second World War she was sent to a Nazi concentration camp.

Poor George! He looks scared! ...And he had every right to be.  :-/

Well, he proposed, married her and stayed that way for 14 years because *he* wanted to do so, nobody forced him...

The Stuarts of Scotland / Re: Relation to Alix
« on: July 30, 2005, 12:45:25 PM »

Well, if we are going to get technical, then all aforementioned people descended from Henry Tudor,  Elizabeth's grandfather and Mary's great grandfather, or even Jasper Tudor (I think this was Henry's grandfather?). It's not really so much about the last laugh or a bigger achievement than Elizabeth's, as  technically all Mary did was give birth to one male child, which was a kind of an "accidental" event, not even something she could have controlled specifically, and the rest was a series of deliberate or "semi-accidental" events which led to the current descendant situation...  But it could have conceivably gone a different way too...  ;) :)

It's not a matter of who had the bigger achievement -I think both had their own merits- but it's ironic that Elizabeth condemned Mary to death and today Mary has a lot of descendants and Elizabeth has none.

The Stuarts of Scotland / Re: Stuart portraiture
« on: July 29, 2005, 12:12:08 PM »
Please excuse my ignorance here but was she known as " Minette" and did she have a very unhappy life with her husband?
( I mean Henriette Anne, Duchesse D'Orleans)

Yes, she had a very unhappy life with her husband, who was said to be homosexual and had lovers. Nevertheless the couple produced three children: Marie Louise (1662-1689), wife of King Charles II of Spain, Philip Charles (1664-1666), and Anne Marie, (1669-1728), wife of Duke Victor Amadeo II of Savoy. Henriette Anne was also rumoured to be the mistress of her brother-in-law, King Louis XIV.

She died suddenly on 30 June 1670 aged only twenty-six. At the time of her death it was widely believed that Henriette Anne had been poisoned by her husband's jealous lover, the Chevalier de Lorraine or even by her husband himself, but it was established that she had died of natural causes

The Stuarts of Scotland / Re: Stuart portraiture
« on: July 27, 2005, 01:52:51 PM »
Thanks for the pictures. You're very kind, Cantacuzene. Please post some of Mary's poems. I'd like to read them.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Tragic Bourbons
« on: July 26, 2005, 06:53:22 PM »
king Louis I of Spain (1707-1724) was the son of King Philip V and Maria Luisa of Savoy. His father abdicated on him in 1724, but he died 7 months later when he was just 17 years old.

Infanta Maria Teresa (1726-1746) was one of the daughters of King Philip V and Elisabetta Farnese. She was married to the French Dauphin and died in childbirth if I'm not mistaken.

Isabella of Parma (1741-1763) was married to the then crown prince (later emperor) Joseph of Austria. She died of smallpox, leaving her husband heartbroken.

Infanta Maria Amalia (1779-1798) was one of the daughters of King Charles IV of Spain and Maria Luisa of Parma. She married her paternal uncle, infante Antonio, but died 3 years later.

Infanta Maria del Pilar (1861-1879), daughter of Queen Isabella II and her consort Francisco de Asis, died unmarried when she was just 18 years old.

Maria Amelia de Orleans (1851-70) was the second daughter of the Duke of Montpensier and infanta Luisa Fernanda, and died unmarried when she was 19.

Maria Cristina de Orleans (1852-1879), third daughter of the Duke of Montpensier, also died unmarried at 26.

Fernando de Orleans (1859-1873) was the first son of the Duke and Duchess of Montpensier, and died at 14.

Infante Fernando (1832-1854) was a younger brother of Francisco de Asis (Isabella II's consort). He died unmarried at 22.

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