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Messages - trentk80

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Iberian Royal Families / Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« on: May 09, 2011, 04:49:23 PM »
I really don't know what to think about this. It's Maria-Amalia or Carlotta-Joaquina, and in the 2 cases, I don't really see why Goya would have painted an infanta dead 2 years ago and I don't really see why he would have painted an infanta who left Spain many years ago... It's absurd for the 2 solutions, and yet, one is necessary good...

I think that the girl next to Infante Antonio in Goya's family portrait is Maria Amalia. Although she was dead, she was painted with the rest of the family as a way of stating that they still remembered her. Besides, it was common to have portraits of deceased royals made for their family. For instance, there were at least 3 portraits of her grandmother, Louise Elisabeth of France, which were painted after her death. Why? Because her family wanted to have portraits of their beloved late relative.

Btw I can't really believe, that there is no contemporary sources from that time who could indicate us who exactly Goya had to paint in this portait...

You're right. There are more sources from the era which could indicate this. Right now I can think of the correspondence between Queen Maria Luisa and her brother Ferdinand of Parma, which has never been published. Perhaps she wrote about the portrait in a letter to him.

I'm don't even sure the portrait on is really her. As you say, MA is said to habe been unattractive and this girl is cute, and I think this dress and hairstyle are not very compatible with 1790 or even later (because this girl seems to be a least 11 y.o. and if it's Maria-Amalie that would make 1790...)

The dress looks like 1790's style to me, but I could be wrong. Perhaps CountessKate knows if the dress and hairstyle are from the 1790's.

Anyway thanx for the informations about her marraiage I did'nt know she wanted to marry her cousin. If she was hurt when he prefered her sister Maria-Louisa, I don't think that it was a good consolation for Maria-Amalia to be married, instead of Luis, to his old and ugly uncle!

The author who wrote it (that Maria Amalia was quiet and melancholic and that she was hurt because Louis didn't like her) didn't provide any sources for this information, so it could be just an inference. As you know, authors sometimes do it.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Fashion at the Spanish court
« on: April 20, 2011, 05:02:14 PM »
Not fashion-related, but the Prado Museum in Madrid has a new themed trail about women and power at the Spanish court:

It's also available in the museum's audio guide.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Fashion at the Spanish court
« on: March 17, 2011, 05:23:51 PM »
Here's a video which contains a small scene showing Spanish dresses from the seventeenth century:

A portrait Maria Amalia, Ferdinand and their children (Carolina & Louis) in late 1773 or early 1774. Sorry it is very small (couldn't find a larger/better version but perhaps someone can); the portrait is said to be at the palace in Innsbruck..... I think it looks very nice (Ferdinand seems to have been slimmed down for said portrait, especially in the face).

There are several portraits of Empress Maria Theresa's children on view in the palace in Innsbruck, including some portraits of Maria Amalia and her family. Do you know who painted this portrait, prinzheinelgirl?

French Royals / Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
« on: September 03, 2010, 09:29:44 PM »
What I'm most interested to know is exactly to where was she exiled, along with her daughter and sister-in-law.
The references mention some place near Barcelona but apparently not really Barcelona. Any idea?

From 1797 to 1808 the Duchess of Orléans lived in Sarrià, which used to be a small village near Barcelona, and nowadays is a neighbourhood in the district of Sarrià-Sant Gervasi in Barcelona. The street where she used to live is called "Duquessa d’Orleans".

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Fernando VII of Spain and his family
« on: January 02, 2010, 09:53:50 AM »
Poor Maria Josepha who clutched her faith & roseries was rumored to have been poisoned.

Maria Josepha, who was so naive, was surrounded by evil women: her sisters-in-law Luisa Carlota, Maria Theresa and Maria Francisca. Could it be possible that one of them poisoned her? I guess we'll never know for sure.

In fact her mother Luise of Tuscany's great-grandmother was Maria Ferdinanda of Saxony, the sister of King Johann I of Saxony who was the grandfather of Luise's first husband Frederick August of Saxony.   So Monika still descended from the royal house of Saxony, even if you discount Frederick August.

Maria Ferdinanda of Saxony, the second wife of Grand Duke Ferdinand III of Tuscany, was childless. It was his first wife, Louise of Naples, who gave him children and was the great-grandmother of Louise.

Was it ever decided that there was no chance that she was Frederick August's child? Or is that supposition based on Luise's behavior before, during and after her pregnancy?

I was wondering the same. In any case, I guess most people didn't regard Monika as Frederick August's child, whether she was or not.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Fashion at the Spanish court
« on: July 08, 2009, 01:12:06 PM »
I was aware of the conference, but not that its proceedings would be published - do you know where & when?  

It will be published in Madrid by the CEEH (Centro de Estudios Europa Hispánica) later this year. There is a list of their publications in their website:

The proceedings of the conference are not yet on the list, but I guess the title will appear there as soon as it is published.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Fashion at the Spanish court
« on: July 07, 2009, 12:58:11 PM »
A couple of years ago there was a conference in Madrid about the Spanish court dress and its influence in Europe during the 16th and 17th centuries. Here's the website (in both Spanish and English), where you can read about the programme:

In addition, I read that the proceedings will be published.

Besides the artists CountessKate mentioned, other important painters of Spanish royalty were Juan de Flandes (for Isabella the Catholic), Titian (for Emperor Charles V), Antonio Moro and Sofonisba Anguissola (for Philip II), Claudio Coello and Luca Giordano (for Charles II), Jacopo Amigoni (for Ferdinand VI), etc. You can also find information in books about the painters themselves, such as exhibition catalogues.

In many history journals and books from Spain there are several articles about royalty and some of them have information about the dressing style of an specific royal or an specific era. For instance, I've found articles about the portraits of Marie Louise of Orleans, about the jewels of Maria Amalia of Saxony, about the wardrobe of Maria Luisa of Parma, and so on.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Spanish Royal Palaces
« on: May 11, 2009, 02:02:28 PM »
It's very pretty. Do we know how big it is? Certainly a smaller palace.

It's not that big. It was originally a hunting lodge.

French Royals / Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
« on: April 05, 2009, 11:36:20 AM »
I didn't know that Marguerite was Czartoryski's second wife. Now I had a look into at some genealogical sites and have some questions:

1. I read that Maria Cristina of Spain married in December 1833, shortly after Ferdinando VII.'s death, an ex-sergeant of the royal guard, Augustín Fernández Muñoz, Duke of Riansares - secretly. But they had at least seven children... How did they manage to keep their marriage a secret?

According to what I've read, they tried to keep their marriage a secret, but it was very difficult since the Queen was frequently pregnant. As soon as their children were born, they were quickly sent away to be raised far from the court.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Felipe V of Spain and his family
« on: March 05, 2009, 02:54:25 PM »
There was always the rival with offsprings of two families.

Yes, there were always rivalries within the Bourbon family in several generations. First it was the rivalry between Elizabeth of Parma and Barbara of Portugal; between Barbara, Maria Amalia of Saxony and Louise Elisabeth of France; later between Maria Luisa of Parma and Maria Carolina of Austria; and finally between the Portuguese infantas Maria Francisca and Maria Theresa and the Neapolitan princesses Luisa Carlota and Maria Cristina.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Felipe V of Spain and his family
« on: March 03, 2009, 01:42:39 PM »
The fact that they did not have children helped tie the knots between the couple, sort of Baudouin-Fabiola in the 18th century.

Yes, and also because Ferdinand and Barbara probably felt threatened by Elizabeth Farnese and her offspring.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Felipe V of Spain and his family
« on: March 01, 2009, 12:31:21 PM »
Is there any books on Queen Barbara of Braganza ?  ???

Not as far as I know, but there's a lot of information on Queen Barbara in the books about her husband and the Queens of Spain in general. Although not beautiful, she was a very cultivated woman and held a splendid court in Aranjuez, while her 'mother-in-law', Elizabeth Farnese, had her own rival court in La Granja.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Books on Iberian royalty
« on: September 13, 2008, 09:39:27 AM »
And about which royals is it ?

It's about Spanish royalty from the 19th and 20th centuries.

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