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Messages - bell_the_cat

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The Imperial Family / Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« on: April 07, 2007, 05:01:15 PM »
Yes Gibbes was gay, I think this is a well known fact!

French Royals / Re: King Louis XII
« on: April 03, 2007, 05:56:07 PM »
Hi Aron!

I don't know of any other children, but Anne had a singularly unproductive career - it's very sad....

It's quite remarkable that her daughter Renee survived until 1575 (she survived most of Claude's grandchildren).

The Tudors / Re: Lady Jane Grey
« on: April 03, 2007, 05:51:39 PM »
Yes, Henry's daughters were both counted as "illegitimate". There were, however four people ahead of Jane in the (strict) line of succession:

Mary Queen of Scots
Margaret, Countess of Lennox
Henry, Lord Darnley
Frances, Duchess of Suffolk (Jane's mum!)

The Tudors / Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« on: March 22, 2007, 07:28:05 PM »
Kurt, what does Buckingham lack to make him a possible murderer?

The Tudors / Re: Lady Jane Grey
« on: March 22, 2007, 07:25:06 PM »
I don't see why she had to execute Guildford as well, though.....

The Tudors / Re: Henry VIII & Anna of Cleves
« on: March 22, 2007, 07:20:27 PM »
Yes, so much for the "Mary - really close to Anne of Cleves" myth!

The Stuarts of Scotland / Re: Best Looking Stuarts
« on: March 22, 2007, 07:18:08 PM »
I beg to differ here...

 I think that the Clouet drawings of Mary as a young woman, show that not only was she physically very attractive, they also capture her great charm. However I'm maybe not a great judge - I also like Rachel out of "Friends"! ;D ;D

The Tudors / Re: Henry VIII & Anna of Cleves
« on: March 10, 2007, 02:56:59 AM »
Well I have an argument!  :D

Anne wasn't born a protestant. She was born in 1515 two years before Luther's theses.

Indeed Anne was not a protestant in 1539. Neither of her parents, nor her brother were protestants, though they representes a faction in German politics that was trying to mediate between the two sides. Anne's brother married the "protestantish" niece of the King of France ( the mother of Henri IV), but this marriage was annulled and he married the niece of Emperor Charles, a very catholic Hapsburg. Anne's sister was married to the Elector of Saxony, perhaps the leading protestant prince in the Empire. The marriage took place in 1526 so I don't think she and Anne were close.

Anne couldn't have been a protestant when she married Henry, because Henry hated protestants and had them burnt! However she would not have been a Roman Catholic after marrying Henry, as though Henry was a staunch catholic in his religion he did not recognise the authority of the Pope. 

This may seem like nit picking but I think it's wrong to regard Anne as "the protestant bride".

Given that she never was a protestant in the religious sense, I can only interpret her "conversion to catholicism" as being the same thing that happened to the rest of the population of England in 1553-4. This can't have been too difficult for her, as a) she never was a protestant, not really... b) she wasn't interested in theological matters, one of the reasons why she and Henry did not get on.

Welcome to the board Poshsussex!

Bell (aka Poshglasgow)

The Tudors / Re: portrait identification
« on: March 05, 2007, 03:59:38 PM »
Hi Kim, I've just noticed your scary Clytemnestra atavar! :o

We've seen this before with Tudor portraits! The only connection with Jane seems to be the age of the subject 17-18, which according to Starkey means that Jane was older than we've always thought! I suppose that's possible, but it's all circumstantial (including the jewellery) evidence. Even if the name Jane was there, which it isn't), there were dozens of Janes to choose from, as we've already discussed somewhere. So I'm sceptical...

Did anyone notice that Liz Hurley was having the first part of her wedding at Kate Parr's old place, Sudeley Castle?

French Royals / Re: King Charles X and his family
« on: March 05, 2007, 03:50:49 PM »
Dominique was telling us that Marie J. and Marie T did not really get on. Marie J. was jealous that her sister had been able to bear children. :)

The Tudors / Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« on: March 04, 2007, 06:50:34 AM »
But, from another point of view, Henry had changed the law so that it wasn't the pope who decided such things - but the king (with a bit of help from parliament). According to that theory Catherine and Henry were never married...

and after 1536 Anne and Henry were never married as well!

By 1544 though both Mary and Elizabeth were back in the succession, though maybe not legitimate. Edward certainly thought that both his sister's were illegitimate and wrote them out of the succession. However in 1553 public opinion seemed to support the view that both sisters were considered legitimate and entitled to the throne. Mary and Elizabeth entered London together. Mary felt herself unable to exclude Elizabeth from the succession.

So both marriages were annulled, but noone really believed it. To this day, Henry is regarded as having had six wives.  :D

French Royals / Re: King Louis XVIII
« on: March 04, 2007, 06:09:03 AM »
"It's true that the countess of Provence was neither beautiful nor pretty but she wasn't totally lacking in charm or attractiveness. As for her sister, Marie Therese, this princess had a pleasing figure ( did not have an unpleasing figure!) in spite of being very thin. She suffered from a paralysing shyness, which made everyone think she was stupid..... But Marie Josephine had much more spirit and intelligence and had a strong personality which didn't prevent her also making a bad start at the French court.

As promised I will share my knowledge of the countesses in the coming weeks, but be patient, it takes time".

(I can't translate as well as Pers, but ...)

Hi Dominique! I find the character of Marie Josephine very interesting. I especially respect her for escaping on her own from Paris, while the rest of the royal family got caught! She also managed to have a long term lesbian relationship, without anyone being too bothered!  ;)

Do you know if the two sisters were close to each other? My impression is rather that they were not.

The Stuarts of Scotland / Re: New movie about Mary Stuart
« on: March 04, 2007, 05:48:14 AM »
Beckham would be a fabulous Darnley! He even looks like him.

Don't know that Victoria would be right for Lady Bothwell as she is such a scene stealer (see "Spice -the Movie").

I would think Mel B, Mel C, Vic and Emma could do a good job as the four Maries and could do some rock interludes, following the example of the recent Coppola film: "Marie Antoinette". Ex band member "Ginger" (!)would make a good Elizabeth, perhaps in the manner of Miranda Richardson in "Blackadder".  :D

The Tudors / Re: New Showtime series about the Tudors
« on: February 27, 2007, 05:20:29 PM »
If Ilyala was a Stuart, I think she would be Elizabeth, Queen of Bohemia! ;)

The Tudors / Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« on: February 27, 2007, 05:13:00 PM »
The whole of London agreed that the marriage of Anne and Henry was valid. Henry himself implied this in the Act of Succession in 1544, and in his will. England supported this view in 1553 and again in 1558.

The evidence for Anne's infidelity is very flimsy, unless you believe that she was a witch and capable of incest with her own brother.....

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