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Messages - Bourgogne

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The Hohenzollern / Re: Saxony-Lauenbourg: any pictures???
« on: August 12, 2008, 08:50:19 AM »
Yes, you´re right, pictures of Franziska Sybilla Augusta is very easy to find. Here is interesting page abut her:
But here is her (again):

and in same style her sister Anna Maria Franziska (but only small picture, I´m sorry):

Oh! How nice! Thank you very much! Yes, it's small, but it's satisfactory for me! It's very kind of you! Thank you!

The Hohenzollern / Re: Saxony-Lauenbourg: any pictures???
« on: August 12, 2008, 08:10:21 AM »
For the beginning (I know, you are not interested in her): Franziska Sybilla Augusta (1675-1733), younger sister of Anna Marie Franziska (1672-1741), married to Ludwig WIlhelm Baden-Baden.
Anyway, Anna Marie Franziska was first married to Philip Wilhelm Pfalz-Neuburg, and had two daughters with him...

Yes, yes, I'm interested in her too (every Saxony-Lauenbourg is welcome!), but pictures of her are quite easy to find, she's the only one of the family in this case. For the others, nothing!!!

Yes Anna Marie Franziska was first married to Philip Wilhelm, and Philip Wilhelm's brother, Johannes Wilhelm, was married to Anna-Maria de'Medici, Gian Gastone's sister! When Philipp Wilhelm died, Anna-Maria organized the remarriage of Anna Maria Franziska with her own brother Gian Gastone. Bad idea, by the way. Gian Gastone hated Anna Maria Franziska immediatly, and reciprocally...

Thank you very much for your answer!

The Hohenzollern / Saxony-Lauenbourg: any pictures???
« on: August 12, 2008, 06:15:56 AM »
I'm looking for pictures of princes and princesses of the house of Saxony-Lauenbourg (Sachsen-Lauenburg) (yes I knox I'm a little strange!).
Especially if someone has any picture of
- Francis I, duke of Saxony-Lauenbourg (1510-1581) ;
- Anna of Saxony-Lauenbourg (1672-1741), the last Saxony-Lauenbourg, who married the last Medici, Gian-Gastone de'Medici (died 1737).

Thank you, just in case!

The Hohenzollern / Re: Question about and/or Help with Picture(s)
« on: August 12, 2008, 05:40:44 AM »
This is Carl of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. But I found him as Carl 1708-1752 en as Carl 1741-1816
Does anybody know which one it is?

It can only be Carl 1741-1816. The suit and especially the hair-style are obviously those of 1780-1790...

French Royals / Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« on: June 21, 2008, 02:39:53 PM »
Actually, I've asked this before, but got no answer. I read in the Royal Diaries book about Marie Antoinette that she had to take her Austrian clothes off in front of all those women and get her French clothes. She also had to take her baths in front of other women. I know those diaries aren't very accurate, so what really happened?

I'm sorry, but it's a legend. Yes, it was an old tradition for foreigner princesses who married french princes. They had to leave "even a little ribbon which was not french".
But at Marie-Antoinette's time, it was fallen into inuse.
André Castelot, in his reference biography of the Queen, explains that this story comes from Mme Campan's "Mémoires", who, about this like about other things, made a mistake.
He proves that, when she crossed the anstrian-french border, Marie-Antoinette was dressed with a dress which had been brought from Vienna, and that she conserved with her in France all her austrian "youg lady"'s jewel...

For the bathes, yes, she had to take her bads in front of her chamber maids. But there is a point: she always was wearing a long flannel gown to take these bathes...

Yes, you are right. I did not think at that moment. Charles VII was the only non-Habsburg emperor for a short time. Thank you for correcting!

You're like impress Maria-Theresia, who never admitted Charles VII's election and never called him otherwise than "the elector of Bavaria"... ! For her, he never was emperor.

Thank you, the site is very interesting and there are good pictures, but the descriptions are not always complete and it seems that confusions can happen easily.

For example I found a portrait there with the headline "Kaiserin Maria Amalia". In fact, if the empress is meant, the wife of emperor Joseph I. was called "Amalia Wilhelmine", and therfore the name is not correct like that. For me it appears that it is rather their daughter, because she looks like that, but then the lady cannot be an empress. It's strange...

But of course, the lady can be an empress! The daughter of Joseph I. and Amalia Wilhelmine, Maria Amalia, was married to Charles-Albert of Bavaria, who was elected emperor under the name of 'Charles VII' 1742-1745...

French Royals / Re: King Louis Philippe and his family
« on: June 19, 2008, 03:39:40 PM »
how the great have fallen eh?

Indeed... But Sir Jimmy Goldsmith already had a quite bright kinship...

His first wife (1954) was Isabelle Patino, daughter of Cristina de Borbon, daughter of Fernando de Borbon, son of Pedro d'Alcantara de Borbon, duke of Durcal, son of Sebastian-Gabriel de Borbon-Braganza, grand-son of king Charles III of Spain.

And his father's aunt was Minna of Rothschild, first cousin of Bertha of Rothschild. And Bertha of Rothschild was princess of Wagram, her husband was Alexandre Berthier, prince and duke of Wagram, son of Napoléon Berthier and Zénaïde Clary (niece of Désirée Clary, queen of Sweden). And Napoléon Berthier was the son of Louis-Alexandre Berthier, prince of Neuchâtel et Valengin, prince de Wagram, and Elisabeth of Bavaria, aunt of duke Maximilian, Sissi's father...

Interesting..maybe the name under the picture was wrong. What makes be confused is that they all look so alike, all those sisters descending from Joseph I's two daughters...

Yes, princesses have all similar faces in this family!

Another example: look at these two portraits of the mother and the daughter, by Rosalba Carriera.

Impress Amalia-Wilhelmine of Brunswick-Lunebourg, Joseph I's wife :

Impress Maria-Amalia of Austria, Joseph I's daughter :

I am allmost sure that this is dughter of Maria Amalia who married into Baden-Baden family....there were a lot of portraits of her on the net...some I found in some auctions long time ago and I think that there is a site about Baden genealogy,I really don't know the exact adress but just try to google,I am sure that you can find something:

For me the question is resolved, thank you to all of you, but especially to you, Marc, who have the good answer -  on my opinion, at least!

Look at this portrait of Maria-Anna, a few years before her death (around 1770-1772, after her hairstyle...).  It's persuasive, isn't it?

The name "Marie-Josepha" was wrong... Thank you to all of you, one more time.

I will ask you another little enigma soon...

I've found this portrait under the name of 'Maria-Josepha'... I suppose it can be Maria-Josepha of Austria, electress of Saxony, but I don't really recognize her on this picture. I see the electoral hat on the table, but isn't she another princess of Saxony, of Bavaria, or...?
If somebody is sure of the identification on this portrait... Thank you!

French Royals / Re: King Louis Philippe and his family
« on: June 16, 2008, 06:03:22 AM »
Isabelle's 4 children were from her 1st husband Count d'Harcourt.

Bernard (1925-1958)
m.1st 4 Nov 1948 (div 1949) Zenaide Rachewska (born 1 Sep 1930);
m.2d Paris 27 Jan 1951 Yvonne de Contades (born 22 Apr 1928)
> Bruno (born 1951)
> Francois (born 1953)

Gilone Jeanne Armande Anne Marie (born 1927)
m.Cany 9 Sep 1950 Antoine de Dreux-Brézé (born 1928)
> Laure de Dreux-Brézé (born 1951)
> Anne de Dreux-Brézé (1952-1953)
> Diane de Dreux-Brézé (born 1954)
> Anne-Pierre de Dreux-Brézé (1958-1958)
> Isabelle de Dreux-Brézé (1964-1966)

Isabelle Henriette Christiane Gabrielle Marie (1927-1993)
m.Paris 20 Oct 1948 Pr Louis Murat (born 1920)   
> Pierre Charles Marie Jean Joachim Napoléon (born 1949)
> Xavier Paul Marie Bruno Joachim Napoléon (1951-1951)
> Leïla Marie Isabelle Solange Monique Anne (born 1953)
> Laura Marguerite Marie Cécile Gilone (born 1954)
> Bernard Pierre Marie François Paul Joachim Napoléon (born 1959)
> Jérôme-Paul Louis Marie Joachim Napoléon (born 1966)

Monique Gabrielle Caroline Juliette Marie (born 1929)
m.Paris 1 Jul 1948 (rel) 3 Jul 1948 Cte Alfred Boulay de la Meurthe (born 1925)
> Gilone (born 1949)
> Iseult (born 1956)

Monique Gabrielle Caroline Juliette Marie d'Harcourt and Alfred Joseph Marie Stéphane Boulay de la Meurthe had another daughter, Laure (born in Rabat, Morocco, 27-04-1951).

She had 2 children with Sir Jimmy Goldsmith (uncle of the actress Clio Goldsmith and father of Jemina Goldsmith who married the pakistani cricket champion Imran Khan):

Charlotte (b.1983) and Jethro (b.1988), but Laure and Jimmy Goldsmith were not married and the children bear the name of their mother...

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