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Messages - pouvoir aux canards

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31
The Habsburgs / Re: Jewels of the Habsburgs
« on: August 01, 2006, 03:29:03 AM »
Thank you again for all...  :) I have been on the site, there were some interesting things about Marie-Valerie' tiara, and also a sketch of her wedding ceremony. I hope any other member will feel interested of the topic...  ???, also extending to other archduchesses... :D

32
Alfred was granted the pleasure of another meeting with Elisabeth, when he paid a visit to newly married Missy. This time Affie got treated to a picnic in the mountains, while Ellisabeth's crowd put on a theatrical display of 'talent...
I just love this story--I only hope this one is true!
Mrs Eddy


I ADORE  this one... it seems real... and also really humorous... droll! We can immagine the comedy... really shakespearian!

33
In the first pick, woman have only the left glove. Was it established by protocol?

Very complicate rules managed the question of gloves, fan, men' arms to the ladies... it was not only matter of protocol, but also of fashion, in sense of manners, social customs...

in order to simplify the question, (later on I can write something more) in the '80/'90 of 19th century, thee were 2 "rules", the french and the english one... and even in France there was a debate about the arm the man offered to the lady (off-topic now)

For the french rule, anytime a lady was out of his family's circle, she had to wear her 2 gloves. Only if she was in wiew of a member of a royal House, she had lo take off her 2 gloves. Only a queen was allowed to wear her gloves always...(but to eat) as did Queen Marie Amélie, Empress Eugénie ... and Queen/Empress Victoria...

For the english rule, a lady - out of the family circle - was allowed to take off one glove (the right one) if she was in wiew of men of equal rank in order to give his bare hand to kiss ... or to shake..., and also in order to drink, eat, bring flowers, ecc, ecc...

But in France, just after the french defeat and the fall of the second empire, (1870) there was a strong tendency to act as english nobilty  did, and women began to bare their right hand for salutes, and then to dance, to drink tea, to eat (always with left hand wearing the glove, a handketchief into the glove and the fan at the belt or at left hand with a string)...

It would be very interesting to study the use and the simbolic of gloves from medioeval era to 19th century... Let me give you just some elements : historically we swear with our bare right hand...kings, emperors, presidents, swore to protect their peoples with their right bare hand... Kings giving their right glove to someone protected him from any hazard... paintings of royals are also very interesting to study from this point of wiew: if the ruler -or his spouse - has the 2 bare hands, it means a representation of his intimacy, if only one is boren - generally the right one - the picture expresses his will of benevolence, and if he-she wears the 2 gloves it means a very formal representation, generally it takes place after a war...

Now the picture of the Cobourg Wedding is not less interesting : it opens possibilities to an analyse: WHY did english princesses and nobles ladies in England began to bare their right hand  during 19th century ?(before, they acted under french rules) The answer is very complex :
               Snobism (ritualy the Queen did it in order to express trust, faith, benevolence, goodwill....),
               beginning of a sense of "liberty" (give their bare hand to a man was considered as a conquest)
               AND, less but not least, it was, acting as a queen, acting from a superior position against men ...

Anyway, if we consider only the photography schooted during the Cobourg wedding ceremony, the princesses were mainly with their equals...  

BEST REGARDS  :D


34
If I understand you question, you want to know what the 'violin in the woods' episode was?


yes,  :-[ and thank you for the clear answer... :D

Purhaps "repugnant" has a different (milder) sense in english... in french it sounds REALLY DISGUSTING AND SHOCKING >:( ... the story seems to me more amusing than repugnant... the boy asked to romantically play violin under the wood' trees but not at all he did it in a romantic mood... ::)... anyway it sounds not so real, even for a metaphysical girl as Elisabeth zu Wied was in youth... :-\

35
The Windsors / Re: Windsor Jewels Part 4
« on: July 31, 2006, 01:48:57 PM »
A Habsburg section has now been created.

 :-* Thank you also here...  ;D :D :)  ...  is it possible to insert all Habsburg topics still working in the new thread ? ::)? ::)

36
The Habsburgs / Re: Jewels of the Habsburgs
« on: July 31, 2006, 01:42:33 PM »
Thank you very much GranduchessElla, all this is new for me..., photos and tiaras... did all the 3/4 tiara you post belonged to MarieValérie?? the last one seems to me that one Zita was wearing for his wedding day. The SECOND one with the marvellous "fleurs de lys" was austrian from the day of his creation or was a french one gone to austrian family???

Thank you again. :D

I am always searching on the Net some drawings of the Habsburg weddings but there are not (or I cannot find them). Once there was an engraving of Stephanie's wedding on sale on an E-bay-site but without the picture... Also the same scene was on sale on an antic-books -site, but again without the picture....

thank you for the third time, a kind answer to me... and for all of us  :D

37


I would like to obtain a clearer answer : anybody but me seems to KNOW what was this repugnant episode... from your replies I understand that it is something Queen Mary of Romania (Missy ???) wrote upon his mother-in-law... thats all.

We can stop here, we are off-topic as Laura said ... Anyway my sympathy reminds with the soul of the dear Carmen Sylva: she was good and mind-opened, she lost her babygirl... as Empress Elisabeth when she lost her Sophie, she was mad of pain and sorrow  but she transformed this pain in love for life and people...

 :)



38
The Habsburgs / Re: Jewels of the Habsburgs
« on: July 30, 2006, 01:51:42 PM »
There is no thread about Habsburg jewels  ... so... did anyone has an idea about some Marie-Valerie' or Gisela' tiaras?? All photographies of the two archduchesses are WITHOUT that sort of jewels... And also Stéphanie: NOT A PICTURE (not one I know) in a court dress with jewels... I saw once a thumb about a misterious MARIE-VALERIE's TIARA but the browser was unable to send me to a picture... the links were closed...

I am NOT specialised in jewels nor the topic interestests me passionately, but the fact seems a little strange... I know austrian jewels disapeared after WW1, but anyway Empresses Elisabeth and Zita were pictured with jewels... why not Gisela, Marie-Valerie and Stéphanie ??. Stephanie assumed so many balls and ceremonies and also Gisela in Baviera and Austria ...

A second answer, related to jewels because weddings days are glittering... : I never saw a picture of the weddings of Gisela, Rudolph, Marie-Valerie. It seems also impossible to see a normal sized picture of the wedding of Franz-Joseph and Elisabeth (and about Elisabeth' sisters weddings and Franz-Joseph' brothers weddings... )  :o :o :o

best regards

Claire

39
...of course repugnant... ??

Elisabeth zu Wied... :o
She wore these "inelegants" folklorics embroidered dresses because she tried to attract the attention worldwide upon the magnificent roumanian art of embroidering IN ORDER TO procure work to the women of Roumania.... she would have prefered to be pictured in a Worth's gown, but she choosed to be Queen Elisabetta, a Roumanian queen and also a woman able to traduce in german roumanian big writers (she ignored jealousy), to work many hours a day to learn the rules of poetry, etc.. etc...

With Karol, the pair, after the death of their young daughter became more and more distant year after year...

Best regards

40
 Elizabeth Wied was, of course, repugnant after the play-your-violin-in-the-woods episode.  

I have some sympathy for Elisabeth zu Wied,  :-* a rather good poet under the surname of Carmen Sylva, a woman of some sensibility to cultural and social problems, able to understand the psychology of Empress Elisabeth of Austria  :o and of the young poor girls of Roumania... I thought I knew something of his life and of his work (litterary and social work). She was not elegant  ::) and not pretty - soon after the death of his beloved daughter she fattened, and paid few attention to his hair... Franz-Joseph did not appreciates her (it could be interresting to understand why ;D) .... she was wrong sometimes politicaly   >:( (for example in the affair of the wedding of the Crown Prince, his husband was right to forbid the wedding of Crown Prince with a Romanian girl) and sometimes she was right (for example to counsel a less warlike politic to king Karl his husband >:() .... But I know nothing about  the play-your-violin-in-the-woods episode and ignore how she could have become repugnant ??? ! Could you inform us about this ???

Thank you  ;D

Claire

41
The Windsors / Re: Windsor Jewels Part 4
« on: July 30, 2006, 11:04:08 AM »
I KNOW that this thread concerns the Windsor's jewels, but ... there is no thread about Habsburg jewels (and the skilled members are here) ... so... did anyone has an idea about some Marie-Valerie' or Gisela' tiaras?? All photographies of the two archduchesses are WITHOUT that sort of jewels... And also Stéphanie:  NOT A PICTURE (not a one I know) in a court dress with jewels... I saw once a thumb about a misterious MARIE-VALERIE's TIARA but the browser was unable to send me to a picture... the links were closed...

I am NOT specialised in jewels nor the topic interestests me passionately, but the fact seems a little strange... I know austrian jewels disapeared after WW1, but anyway  Empresses Elisabeth and Zita were pictured with jewels... why not Gisela, Marie-Valerie and Stéphanie ??.Stephanie assumed so many ceremonies and also Gisela ...

A second answer : I never saw a picture of the weddings of Gisela, Rudolph, Marie-Valerie. It seems also impossible to see a normal sized picture of the wedding of Franz-Joseph and Elisabeth (and I say nothing more about Elisabeth' sisters weddings and Franz-Joseph' brothers weddings...

best  regards

Claire

42
French Royals / Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« on: July 28, 2006, 04:05:56 PM »
I have studied Marie Therese's life for many years, have examined original letters and documents in both the French and Austrian national archives, and have also interviewed members of the Bourbon family.  I know what I'm talking about----as others on this site do not.    (FROHSDORF)

I try to study the life of Louise Marie d'Artois, daughter of Duc et Duchesse de Berry (ou Berri) . His life in France, Scotland, Prague, etc.... After his wedding with Carlo III I have some informations. If there were one or several book(s) in French or Italian (or Portuguese, English, Spanish) I would be happy to read them.

Best Regards

P.S. your opinions about Duchesse d' Angoulème seemed to me very wise...





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