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Messages - Student of History

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Russian Noble Families / Jewry and Russian Nobility
« on: May 16, 2010, 08:01:36 PM »
Does anyone know if there were any Jewish members of the Russian nobility?

I look forward to hearing from you in this regard.

All the best,

Imperial Succession and the Throne / Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« on: May 13, 2010, 06:01:50 AM »
All branches of the Romanov family have heirs. The real question is, to what.

That applies ONLY to the so-called royal house, not the defunct Romanian throne, though. I think the family name remains the same as well.

Actually, if you read the Fundamental Rules that King Michael signed, you will see that a specific Line of Succession to the THRONE of Romania is laid out (to the complete exclusion of the the German Hohenzollerns, who would have ended up "succeeding" to the throne under the old laws):

1.HRH Crown Princess Margarita of Romania, Custodian of the Crown of Romania
2.HRH The Princess Helena of Romania
3.Nicholas de Roumanie (who is to receive the title and style of HRH Prince of Romania on his 25th birthday this year)
4.Elisabeta Karina de Roumanie
5.HRH The Princess Irina of Romania
6.Michael de Roumanie Kreuger
7.Angelica de Roumanie Kreuger
8.HRH The Princess Sophie of Romania
9.Elisabeta Marie Biarneix
10.HRH The Princess Marie of Romania

An interesting addition, thank you.

Servants, Friends and Retainers / Re: Drenteln Alexandr Alexandrovich
« on: March 13, 2010, 04:36:08 AM »
Hi Nicola,
Thank you for your post.  I was wondering if you knew who the child sitting on the steps next to Drnteln with the imperial children was by any chance?

Some interesting photos of Drenteln Alexander Alexandrovich with the members of Imperial family during their visit to Germany in 1910, also in Sevastopol and Yalta (Livadia) the same year.

With Olga.

With Nicholas II and Dr. Botkin.

With German/Russian nobility and royalty.

In Sevastopol

With at that time Stabsrittmeister (Lieutenant-Captain) of HM Hussars Vorontsov-Dashkov.

With Vorontsov-Dashkov, Vyrubova and Imperial family

No comments;).

*Photos are slightly modified and taken from the Beinecke albums.

Russian Noble Families / Re: Prince Baronovsky
« on: March 13, 2010, 04:28:38 AM »
Thank you Pavlov.  What a fabulous story.  Five years in a labour camp seems a fairly lenient reprimand by Commrade Stalin for such blatant dissidence.  I wonder if he and Baranovsky were family friends prior to Stalin's rise to the top of the party pyramid? 
Do you know of anywhere I might be able to locate photos of Prince Baranovsky?

Imperial Succession and the Throne / Re: taking away the family name
« on: February 02, 2010, 07:07:51 PM »
Don't we all have family members that make us cringe at times? But can we dismiss a child's natural instict to trust and adore their parents and grandparents and hang on their every word, comforted in the (sometimes false) reassurances of 'why would s/he make it up.?' 
The recollections of displaced persons differs widely for a number of reasons: some choose to talk, some feel compelled to talk and some will never talk about their experiences (one only needs to profile returned servicemen from WWII for suitable insights) yet from this reality we,  the following generations have to piece together our own understanding of the past.
Surely, if we can learn anything from the 1917 Revolution, shouldn't it be that children do not deserve to be brutalised because of the shortcomings of their kin?
Kind Regards,

Imperial Succession and the Throne / Re: Russian Empire legal successor
« on: February 02, 2010, 06:52:18 PM »
There are several points for consideration in a complex scenario such as this. I have not read the terms of the lease, although it doesn't sound dissimilar to some country estate leases I am aware of which permit freedom of use/ never ownership. If the Government pays for works on St Basil's Catheral, does that mean they own it or they are donating funds in support of the church - a recognised self governing entity?
Do the faberge eggs TNII gave as Easter presents to his wife and children belong to the Russian Federation because the Soviet Union claimed all his known personal assets /state purses as their own ?  Does that in turn make anyone who has ever bought a Faberge egg, or piece of imperial jewellery through a Sotheby's auction or off a friend or relative, a thief of the Russian Federation ...?  I say these things to highlight the Pandora's box which has plagued Russia in all its forms since the 1917 revolution.
In respect of the original intent of this thread which I believe richard_1990 was highlighting what he thought evidentiary proof of legal continuity between Russian Empire/ USSR /Russian Federation, perhaps we should look for other similiar examples, Greece or Iran may provide insights not yet considered.
Kind Regards,

Imperial Succession and the Throne / Re: Russian Empire legal successor
« on: February 02, 2010, 06:10:23 PM »
Enter another consideration:  There is no such thing as a state owned christian church.  Church/ monastries belong to the church - whatever the denomination. ie: Jerusalem.

Imperial Succession and the Throne / Re: Russian Empire legal successor
« on: February 02, 2010, 03:53:51 AM »
Assuming that Time magazine correctly report via checking Russian archives re: purchase of /payment for Church from the state purse....
enter the role of the church in post revolutionary Russia/ USSR and Russian Federation.
It's definitely an interesting prospect re: continuity of property given the changing role / perception of the church by the Soviet  and post Soviet state.  I'm not sure that the authorities concerned have reached a satisfactory agreement of terms as yet.
Interested to hear other's thoughts.
Kind Regards,

Imperial Succession and the Throne / Re: Russian Empire legal successor
« on: February 02, 2010, 03:25:09 AM »
Ah... the tug-o-war over $$$, how very original :)
TNII administered both his personal funds and state funds.  Just like his brothers and sisters, his children had their own private funds.  It's a bit like saying QEII or Prince Charles don't have any personal wealth of their own...Establish the source of the funds used for the construction of the church in Nice and from there the question of legal continuty will become apparent.
Kind Regards,

Imperial Succession and the Throne / Re: Russian Empire legal successor
« on: February 02, 2010, 02:38:58 AM »
That may be the political viewpoint of the international community for the purposes of diplomacy, however, your post refers to the ownership of property reportedly built by TNII outside of Russia.  Therefore the first thing that needs to be established would be: Did TNII build the church with his personal funds or with state funds?

Imperial Succession and the Throne / Re: taking away the family name
« on: February 02, 2010, 02:28:28 AM »
I think Queen Margerethe of Denmark summed it up best in an interview with the BBC (?) for the series Royals of Europe when she was asked about the succession to the Russian throne. It went something like this... "It is a family matter".

Their World and Culture / Re: Assistance with identification
« on: February 02, 2010, 12:42:03 AM »
That's what I thought too, but apparently it was at a ball. I am trying to place the headpiece. It's unlike any I've seen and it's definitely not Anglo.

Imperial Succession and the Throne / Re: Russian Empire legal successor
« on: February 01, 2010, 11:34:38 PM »
richard_1990 - I am intrigued by your use of the term legal successor.
My understanding is that the country known as Russia today is Putin's Russia, in an entirely dissimiliar way to Obama's USA.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the Soviet Union become the C.I.S one of which was an entity which included a redrawn Russia which held little likeness to the former expanded territories of the Russian Empire. Or does this question beg the question : what is the role of the Patriach in modern-day Russia and how, if at all has it changed from C19th, C20th and C21st century?

I have a full staff roster of the Mariinsky Imperial Opera as of 1913. Another more or less permanent opera house was a privately owned Musical Drama theater.

Would you be willing to share your list with us please?
Kind Regards,SOH

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