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Messages - Terence

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The Tudors / Re: Richard III remains found & identified
« on: February 20, 2013, 05:09:56 PM »
If I'm reading the sentence below correctly, I think you have it all wrong.

"Edward IV's daughter Elizabeth (who had Plantagenet descents through her own mother Elizabeth Woodville even if her father's only royal descent came through his mother Cecily Neville.)"

Looking back a number of generations I find no Plantagenet ancestors for Eliz. Woodville.  However Elizabeth of York's father Edward IV, had at least 5 lines of descent thru his father, Richard Plantagenet, Duke of York, in addition to several lines thru his mother Cecily Neville.  Richard, Duke of York was the senior heir general of Edward III, thru his second son, Lionel of Antwerp.

Going back 4 generations from Richard, Duke of York, you find among his grt. grt. grandparents: Edward II, Lionel Of Antwerp, Elizabeth de Burgh, Joan "the Fair Maid of Kent", and Eleanor of Lancaster.  All of them descended from Plantagenet kings


The Tudors / Re: Richard III remains found & identified
« on: February 16, 2013, 07:34:25 PM »
Here's a link to the Channel 4 documentary that aired right after the U of Leic press conference.

It was blocked outside the UK but is now on youtube, tho who knows for how much longer.

My problem w/ this documentary is w/ the archaeologist Jo Appleby.  She uses a mattock, ie pickaxe, when she's clearing away the soil after the leg bones have been found.  Lo and behold she doesn't expect the skull to be where it is and cracks it and knocks the face off!  I understand the grave was too short for the body and consequently the skull wasn't in the expected position, but really.  That close to a skeleton all I've seen used are a trowel and a brush.  Her attitude after was like, oh well that sheet happens!

Also she freely tosses around the word hunchback.  She should have known the historic importance of this and been more circumspect  IMO.  Especially since it turns out the condition was scoliosis, NOT kyphonosis which is a hunchback.  She was doing the opposite of what a true academician should do; took her preconceptions and made them fit the finding, rather than carefully examining the finding and figure out whether the preconceptions were true.

Exactly the same happened w/ the bones in the urn in 1933.  You would think we've progressed since then, grrr.  The examiners started w/ the old stories and made their findings fit the accepted tales.  Bad science and bad history result.  Maybe they should have had someone w/ more experience on this find since Dr. "Ooops" Appleby just got her degree in 2008?

However, the result is that this discovery PROVES that Shakespeare's hunchback w/ a withered arm was an invention.  No thanks to "Ooops" who considerably muddied the waters w/ the media from what I've read.


It's my understanding that in the past the Duke of Beaufort has refused dna testing, now with the finding of Richard's remains several members of the family have agreed to testing.  I think 4 of them have agreed to the testing to obtain what would be the Plantagenet Y-chromosome.  That should match Richard's, if they can get the dna and would also match his nephews.  Too bad the church and the Queen won't allow it.

It's my opinion the bones in the urn aren't the princes.  After all they were found 10 feet deep under the stone foundation for some stairs.  Who would be able to dig that undetected?

Maybe when Charles is King things will change and we can find out.

The Tudors / Re: Richard III remains found & identified
« on: February 09, 2013, 02:19:13 PM »
Here's a link to the press conference at the U of L, bottom of the page.
The Romanovs and Richard III found in our lifetimes, who'd a thunk!
We do live in interesting times.

The Tudors / Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« on: January 24, 2013, 10:18:39 PM »
Yes, thank you Kimberly.

Reading into the pr  I think it might be safe to assume they have ided the remains as Richard's.  Why else would they have proceeded w/ the facial recognition if it was some anonymous medieval chap?

Here's a funny link to a pro-Richard vid for kids, part of a series called Horrible Histories.


Thanks gdella for the rundown on who's here and gone.

I was aware of the age difference between Philip and his sisters, just noticed a lot of the next generation was passing on.  With Margarita it is like you said almost even, tho if I counted right it's 10 gone now and 9 living.  Not sure how close he was to all of them but get the idea there was some relationship, that must be tough to see.

Guess Philip has some good genes, his mother and her mother lived fairly long, tho his dad not so much.


The Hohenzollern / Re: House of Baden
« on: January 16, 2013, 10:24:20 PM »

HRH Princess Margarita of Baden, ( July 14th 1932 ) eldest daughter of Margrave Berthols of Baden and his spouse,néé Princess theodora of Greece and Denmark,passed away on january 15th.

She was married,and divorced,to Prince Tomislav of Yugoslavia,and is survived by her two children and,Prince Nikolas and Princess katarina,as well as two brothers,TRH The Margrave of Baden and Prince Ludwig of Baden.

So she was a niece of Prince Philip.  I've noticed several of his neices and nephews have predeaceased him.  How many have and how many still live?


edubs, good job, you have quite the knack for writing.
You might want to revise this
his sobbing wife Maria Alexandrovna
as she died in 1880 and he was md. to his mistress at his death.

Forum Announcements / Re: +Robert (Bobby) Hall
« on: December 12, 2012, 05:01:09 PM »
I was shocked and saddened to hear of Robert's passing.  Many already described him well here as informative, witty and one of their favorite posters.  I heartily concur.

My condolences to his loved ones.

RIP Robert


(edit)  Tho I'm terribly saddened, reading thru these comments brought a smile to my face when I realized how many here had communicated w/ him by pm.  It seems he had a very voluminous correspondence.  And all w/ people who held him in high regard, sometimes (like in my case) whether they disagreed or not.  We are all poorer here for his loss.

Thanks Janet & Greg, a great read, obviously well researched.

The Tudors / Re: The Crimes of Richard III
« on: October 07, 2012, 11:16:23 PM »
Just read this by Clements E. Markham now available online. This link was
given in comments on the possility of finding R III's remains. I'd never
heard of this book, tho I'm much less well read than many here, I do think
this is seldom mentioned in researching R III.






A great read, I'd recommend it to every Ricardian. I wonder what has
changed in sources since then and if anything is disproved of what he
writes? He does a fine job of aquitting Richard of all the baseless
accusations. He is well footnoted and and actually a pretty good job of
nailing the murders of the Princes on H VII.

My wife lately has wondered about my obsession w/ Richard, I just had to
think a second and say it's about the truth and justice in the history we
are told! We have to fight for the truth!


The Tudors / Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« on: October 04, 2012, 11:04:24 PM »
Here's a link to a relative of Richard III who lives near the discovery of his body.  She is not a candidate for mitocondriadal DNA.

I wish the reporters would stop talking about relatives as "descendants".   GRRR, simply ignorant.

This woman is not a candidate for mtDNA, but there is another source.  Descendants of his sister Anne through the complete female line.  This is being pursued and is the line to verify if this is really Richard III.

Also, the male line could be confirmed if the Beaufort Dukes of Somerset would cooperate.  Interesting possibillity.


Having Fun! / Re: Rare Pictures XI
« on: September 27, 2012, 12:06:01 AM »
Can someone idenitfy the people in this photo?  I can guess a few, but who is the baby in arms, what time frame?


Imperial Russian History / Russian Imperial Library era find
« on: August 23, 2012, 08:48:53 PM »
Just thought some might find this intersting.
It contributes to the idea that Russia in the 1800s wasn't as primitive as some think.

I am bumping up this topic because I just read that Georgina, Lady Kennard, has died (age 91) on April 28.  She was the granddaughter of Grand Duke Mikhail Mikhailovich (daughter of Lady Zia Wernher).  Among her children are two English duchesses.

I spotted one of her granddaughters, Lady Edwina Grosvenor-Snow at the Royal Wedding.

I wonder if anyone has a photograph of her at any point?

So her granddaughter went to the wedding the day after her Grandmother died?  I'm American so not sure about proper British protocol, but isn't that a bit uncouth/tacky/shoddy?

I'd be spending time w/ my family, but that's just me.


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