Author Topic: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad  (Read 301430 times)

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pinklady

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #75 on: June 19, 2005, 07:31:20 AM »
I have thought about this, and maybe Alix was hypocritical because she was such a "religious person" and yet she suffered from anti - semitism. A truly religious person would never want to discriminate against their fellow man because of religion, race or colour.
Just my thoughts. :-/

bluetoria

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #76 on: June 19, 2005, 07:37:00 AM »
I don't think Alix was anti-semitic...she wrote to Nicholas asking for help for Jewsih people.

rskkiya

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #77 on: June 19, 2005, 07:41:13 PM »
Bluetoria
I MUST DISAGREE!
If Alix was not anti semetic then why did she read The Protocals Of Zion and The Great in The Small two notorious works of anti semetic propaganda!


rskkiya
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 09:25:43 AM by Alixz »

Robert_Hall

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #78 on: June 19, 2005, 07:57:49 PM »
To be fair, Rskkiya, I have read Mein Kampf, but am not a Nazi nor anti-Semitic. I will agree that this is probably not the case with Alexandra, but, just to play devil's advocate...

rskkiya

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #79 on: June 19, 2005, 08:11:45 PM »
She commented in her diary on how correct and insiteful these books were !
That's anti semetism!

rs
CORRECTION AS OF 6/26/05
Nicholas make this comment not Alix!
Please see The Complete Wartime Correspondences for information on Alix and antisemitism

rs
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by rskkiya »

Robert_Hall

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #80 on: June 19, 2005, 08:16:31 PM »
Yes, of course you are correct.  Hey, I am not a defender of the woman ! Perhaps she was just not intelligent enough to discern what she was reading ? She had some pretty "individualistic"  ways of expressing her religion, and was most likely fed this stuff by those who would exploit her to serve their own prejudices ?

pinklady

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #81 on: June 20, 2005, 05:01:27 AM »
She embroidered BEAUTIFULLY.....
and played the piano and sang with a very pretty voice, however this used to make her nervous as she was naturally very shy.

bluetoria

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #82 on: June 20, 2005, 06:11:49 AM »
Quote
Bluetoria
I MUST DISAGREE!
If Alix was not anti semetic then why did she read The Protocals Of Zion and The Great in The Small two notorious works of anti semetic propaganda!

You are quite deluded by suggesting that she was not anti semetic.
rskkiya

Rskkiya, please could you give the exact quotation which she wrote in her diary about these books?

Even if she said they were 'insightful' or something similar it does not necessarily mean she agreed with everything that was written. Like Robert, I have read books about Nazism' old Church texts condemning 'pagans' and even Protestants - & have commented afterwards that I found them fascinating to read - NOT because I agreed with what was written but because it was fascinating to understand the thoughts of other people.

Also, reading a book or making a statement is not indicative of her anti-semitism. Words mean nothing unless they are supported by actions. Do you have ANY evidence of Alexandra showing any prejudice to Jewish people? The evidence I have found is of her visiting Jewish soldiers and writing to Nicholas asking for help for them....Actions speak louder than words.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 09:26:07 AM by Alixz »

rskkiya

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #83 on: June 20, 2005, 05:55:29 PM »
The quotes can be found in her last Diary (printed rather recently) which unfortunately I have returned to my library... but I will be happy to check the text out again and print all the information here.

As I have stated before, Alix was quite good at sponsoring, supplying, organizing and running various ad hoc hospitals during the war. This work was something which she managed quite well and was in my opinion  far more useful than her attempts to be a "nurse" which due to her poor physical and emotional health she was  not able to be entirely reliable.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 09:26:43 AM by Alixz »

Offline koloagirl

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #84 on: June 22, 2005, 03:29:50 PM »

On another post in the "Alexandra's clothes" thread...a
very insightful poster (Griffh) said and I quote:

"the thing about Alix is that she is totally exposed, her most intimate thoughts, her weaknesses, her strengths, her most private affairs as a woman, her greatest moments of beauty, her most tragic moments of disillusionment and defeat, and still she stands as a woman of heroic proportions in spite of her mistakes and this is perhaps because of the fact that she was never acting a part but was genuinely being herself and striving to live up to her highest concept of what was right."

This is one of the most insightful and lovely posts about Alix IMO that I have ever heard -- it reflects exactly the way I feel about her -- but I don't have the wonderful ability of this poster to express it.  

I know that Alix was a product of her times and circumstances, hence the intolerance noted.....but having said that, I still think that she did the best she could and was always true to herself.

And thank you Griffh for having said what I could never put into words so well!
 :)
Janet R.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 09:27:18 AM by Alixz »
Janet R.

bluetoria

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #85 on: June 22, 2005, 06:40:22 PM »
Quote


"the thing about Alix is that she is totally exposed, her most intimate thoughts, her weaknesses, her strengths, her most private affairs as a woman, her greatest moments of beauty, her most tragic moments of disillusionment and defeat, and still she stands as a woman of heroic proportions in spite of her mistakes and this is perhaps because of the fact that she was never acting a part but was genuinely being herself and striving to live up to her highest concept of what was right."

This is one of the most insightful and lovely posts about Alix IMO that I have ever heard -- And thank you Griffh for having said what I could never put into words so well!
 :)
Janet R.


I agree, Janet. It is a beautiful post; again showing griffh's wonderful insight.  :)

Finelly

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #86 on: June 23, 2005, 06:34:47 PM »
I wouldn't say so.  First of all, she wasn't out in public enough to be seen as a role model for anything!

Secondly, I think she ordered her gowns once or twice a year, caring a lot about what was comfortable for her, rather than what was eminently fashionable.

She was well-dressed, though.  I just don't think that people wanted to emulate her style.

Sunny

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2005, 08:32:48 PM »
Quote
The quotes can be found in her last Diary (printed rather recently) which unfortunately I have returned to my library... but I will be happy to check the text out again and print all the information here..


I have that diary, and don't recall it containing anything of an anti-Semitic nature.

Sunny
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Sunny »

Finelly

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2005, 09:43:27 PM »
Alexandra read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and several other antisemitic booklets and responded positively to the opinions therein.  

<shrug>  It's in her diaries and also in some letters she wrote.  I don't have the exact cites, but it's in there.  

There really is no disputing that the entire Romanov clan was antisemitic.  There's a whole thread on that topic elsewhere that you can consult for evidence and discussion.

pinklady

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2005, 09:55:36 PM »
It was not Rskkiya that first mentioned anti semitism. It was stated Alix was perhaps hypocritical by a poster, then another poster asked WHY?? and I thought about it and answered she was religious and yet anti semetic so therefore I considered that to be hypocritical.
Fair enough??
Alix was not raised as an anti- semite but Nicholas was.
The Romanovs were anti -semetic in general. (but obviously some were not)
And so Alix came under the influence of her husband as wives in that era tended to become more so than today.
Rasputin was not anti- semetic and Alix was under his influence and so she came to see the Jews differently especially after the outbreak of WW1.
That was when she saw them more sympathetically.
Anti - Semetism was rampant throughout the reign of Nicholas and Alix. It is not their fault, the Romanovs, Russia and Europe all suffered with this problem. Nicholas was raised in its midst.
In Nicholas day he was not considered overly anti-semetic but by todays standards he was and so is Alix. Remember we are judging them by our own modern standards of political correctness.
There were different values then.
Nobody is perfect, not even Alix. During the Japanese war Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaevna spoke badly of the Japanese and she was only a little girl very much under the influence of her mother and father.
Alix was guilty of anti semitism and racism, millions of people were. It was the times and the era they lived in.

Nobody is perfect, no need to bounce on the odd criticism of her, she had many more finer points, such as her charities and her efforts during WW1 and she taught her daughters in the end better than how Olga spoke as a small child in 1905.
Alix was just human after all and all humans make mistakes, could we say she adjusted her thinking of the Jews in later life??




« Last Edit: July 17, 1981, 03:19:58 AM by pinklady »