Author Topic: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad  (Read 274416 times)

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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #180 on: January 18, 2006, 08:29:54 AM »
The comparison of Alexandra and Princess Diana's sitiuations was good; I think both were misunderstood strong women, although Princess Diana was more popular with the general public than Alexandra ever was. And I agree with Tsaria that if Alexandra wasn't worth discussing, just dismissing why are we still here so many years after she is gone, and the world is changed, and still discussing her? Obviously, she must be of some interest. And she is. She had bad qualities extensively covered on other threads, but this one is great because it shows us that Alexandra had many good qualities, and I appreciate the fact that other people thought of some great attributes of her's that I did not capture.

Offline Tania+

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #181 on: January 18, 2006, 01:02:53 PM »
Her IH Alexandra, was for all understanding, out of place. How well I understand the distance people can feel if one is not from a given country,group,team,etc. One feels ostrisized, surely. But, if one can be welcomed by those with true love and openess, one can feel more than welcomed. Her IH Alexandra, was for all, an outsider. Yet with all of these awesome set barriers, she took it upon herself to immerse herself as well as possible in all that she felt should and could do appreciatively.

80 years ago, women were hardly welcomed in a man's world.80 years ago is not at all like the many freedoms we have for today's world, and for women especially.

One cannot hold her to the expectations of today's world, whilst looking at the backdrop of history then in all it's maddness.

In all the expressions of sharing thoughts and actions of niceness of her IH Alexandra, she was all that NAAOTMA has stated, and perhaps more. I believe most of all, had her children lived, one would have seen all the positive energy and work of her motherhood that she gave to her children.

With all the saddness, pain, and infinite tragedies, she and her family went through, still today, we gain infinite strength in the knowledge, that of all the threads we look for of a human being's life, we look for that of "goodness". May it be so that at the closing of our lives, short or long, people will look for the good, more than anything else. With that, hope lives on for all of us.

Tatiana


Quote
Alexandra had her mother's trait of wanting to be of practical help to others instead of being a ceremonial figurehead at charity events. She took care of her babies hands-on, not the usual for her day. She trained as a nurse, doing any task assigned after completing her training as a middle-aged woman with a history of sciatica. She cared more about her childrens' happiness than the tidiness of her personal rooms. She hoped her children would marry for love. She was an animal lover, which very often indicates a compassionate nature in people. She had a deep faith in God and a deep streak of spirituality that was not fashionable. She had a large capacity for friendship. Like her maternal grandmother, she cherished the sentiment behind an object more than its intrinsic value. She was adventuresome enough to embrace the Style Moderne when it was hardly mainstream.

She was a marriage partner in a genuine love relationship that survived everything that Fate could throw at it. Despite all her flaws, large and small, Nicholas loved her as much or more on the night they died together as the day he married her. That alone makes her story extraordinary.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 10:12:57 AM by Alixz »
TatianaA


Offline Grace

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #182 on: January 18, 2006, 05:12:11 PM »
During the Rasputin years, Nicholas was clearly frustrated with Alexandra, feared upsetting her and the like so perhaps it wasn't all roses to the end, as some here are determined to think.

Again, I'm not saying it WASN'T that way, but what evidence do we have?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 10:13:23 AM by Alixz »

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #183 on: January 18, 2006, 05:29:14 PM »
Well, when he was gone to the front he often wrote several times a day.

Here's one letter:

Stavka. 23 February, 1917

MY BELOVED SUNNY,

Sincerest thanks for your dear letter, which you left in my coupé. I read it with avidity before going off to sleep. It was a great comfort to me in my loneliness, after spending two months together. If I could not hear your sweet voice, at least I could console myself with these lines of your tender love.... I could not believe my eyes-this news was so unexpected. [the children having measles] ...In any case, it is very tiresome and disturbing for you, my darling....Well, my dear, it is getting late. Good-night. May God bless your sleep...

24 February.
.....May God keep you, my joy I kiss you and the children. In thought and in prayer I am with you all. Your little hubby
NICKY.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #184 on: January 18, 2006, 05:31:24 PM »
and another

Stavka. 24 February, 1917

MY DARLING, SWEET SUNNY,
.....My heart is suffering from separation. I hate this separation, especially at such a time I I shall not be away long-direct things as best I can here, and then my duty will be fulfilled.

25 February.
....Good-bye, my love, my dear little Wify. May God bless you and the children!

Ever your most loving little husband

NICKY.


[I've edited out the long war news, etc...to capture the parts where he directly addresses Alexandra]
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #185 on: January 18, 2006, 05:35:12 PM »
in other letters from the same period he writes to her as

'my treasure' and 'my dear Sunny' and that he was 'Eternally your NICKY ' , that 'In thought I am always with you',  that ' I kiss you tenderly' and with his 'Tender love'.

Even when his letters are very brief, he never fails to include some endearment and often more than one.

They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline Grace

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #186 on: January 18, 2006, 05:46:19 PM »
Thanks for those letter quotes.

I rest my case.  :)

Offline AkshayChavan

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #187 on: January 19, 2006, 02:07:49 PM »
I dislike Alexandra the more as i read about her. However, it is important to be impartial. Despite being hardcore alix hater , i have to state one thing. She was not a "monster" she is made out to be. I don't think she meant any harm. Unlike Lenin who was cold-blooded and knew what he was doing. I don't think Alix ever realised how much harm and pain her actions were causing. She though she was doing the right thing. It is just that she didn't realise what she was doing. I think all have us have hurt someone without realising or intending it. Thus ,only good thing i can say about her is that her intensions were good.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #188 on: January 20, 2006, 08:31:18 AM »
Alexanndra's intentions were good, and sometimes she may not have had her actions match her intentions as much as they perhaps ought to have, but this true of all of us. She and Nicholas did love each other to the end, and their letters prove this. They had a good relationship, which it seems to me was something that could never break, although they argued from time to time like any other married couple, as stated in another thread. I don't think we need to question this. She left an a impact on history, and indeed she was a good person.

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #189 on: January 20, 2006, 10:09:47 AM »
Quote
Alexanndra's intentions were good, and sometimes she may not have had her actions match her intentions as much as they perhaps ought to have, but this true of all of us. She and Nicholas did love each other to the end, and their letters prove this. They had a good relationship, which it seems to me was something that could never break, although they argued from time to time like any other married couple, as stated in another thread. I don't think we need to question this. She left an a impact on history, and indeed she was a good person.


Just a couple of small points:

First off, none of us can know with any certainty the intentions of another. Thus you cannot say what Alexandra's true intentions were. You can only guess based upon the things you have read here in the forum and from those authors whose material you have read.

Secondly, letters prove very little. Because one says such and such in a letter does not translate into substantial evidence that such and such is true. In fact, many claims are made in letters and journals only to be disproved later when one of the letter writers denies his/her intentions in that letter. Alexandra may have made certain claims in her letters and Nicholas responded in kind, but we can never know with any certainty that what they wrote is in actuality what they truly felt.

I will agree on one thing that you wrote. "She had an impact on history." I can only guess what impact you believe she had (since you don't state it other than to say she was a good person [which is solely your opinion]) but I will say that I believe her impact on history was not good. Had she restrained herself from meddling in politics, perhaps Nicholas would have relented in terms of granting the Duma real power. This is turn may have lead the country to reject the Bolsheviks and in turn the horror of communism might never have been realized.

It seems to me that where you err is in stating your beliefs as though they were facts. It is better to say, "I believe that Nicholas and Alexandra's love was abiding and remained strong to the end," rather than "She and Nicholas did love each other to the end, and their letters prove this." One is a statement of belief based upon your reading and interpreting of what you've read and the other is a declaration in no unequivocal terms that they did love one another to the end... period. We simply cannot say this particularly in matters of the heart.

Was Nicholas frustrated by his wife and aggravated by her repeated intrusions and meddlesome ways? But to avoid hysterics, he capitulated... he told her what she wanted to hear to maintain a semblance of peace? Who can really say?

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #190 on: January 20, 2006, 11:08:02 AM »
It seems to me that they state their devotion,love for each other, and mutual opinions in letters that were written not long before their death, but perhaps that's just my opinion...These letters were written in 1917, and they died in mid 1918. Either adversity pulls you apart from another person, or it forges you together more, and do I know what happened in Nicholas and Alexandra's relationship? No, I don't. I just stated what I believe.We don't know the intentions of people beyond ourselves completely, but I doubt that Alexandra had bad intentions. And just because she didn't does't mean she was perfect. Anyway, she did have some good traits, and that is what we are discussing here.

Offline Helen

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #191 on: January 20, 2006, 11:42:25 AM »
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Now, I find it hard to equate goodness with this sort of behavior which to all intents and purposes smacks of: well... he got his just desserts.

Leushino, I would first like to say that I think you were absolutely right in your last post: we will never know for sure what someone thought or what his or her intentions were.

What puzzles me, however, is an inconsistency in your posts. You bring to our attention that we will never be able to know whether Nicholas and Alix expressed their true - positive - feelings about each other in their letters, and you're right in this. But just a few posts earlier, you were not so careful in choosing your words when giving a cyncial negative interpretation to Alix's words after Stolypin's death and assuming that she had bad intentions. Would it not have been more appropriate to say that it was just your personal opinion - based on Kurth's book, which is also just a personal interpretation - that she must have thought he got what he deserved? After all, we do not know what her intentions or thoughts were when expressing the words you referred to. And these words could just as well be interpreted as "God is the only One who knows the place and time of our death. It is a tragedy for the people who are left behind, but you don't have to feel sorry for him, for he is in Heaven now, he is with God and in peace". The latter interpretation would be perfectly in line with the letter she wrote  just before Stolypin's death and would be far more in line with her character than your interpretation.  She had expressed similar thoughts with regard to people who had died and whom she had loved, so there is most likely nothing "vindictive" in it, as you tried to suggest elsewhere.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Helen »
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #192 on: January 20, 2006, 12:12:44 PM »
Perhaps we each have a negative/positive view of a person, and that colors we we believe. ;), and what we think their intentions might have been if we think we can know their intentions at all.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by romanov_fan »

leushino

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #193 on: January 20, 2006, 08:29:31 PM »
Quote

What puzzles me, however, is an inconsistency in your posts. You bring to our attention that we will never be able to know whether Nicholas and Alix expressed their true - positive - feelings about each other in their letters, and you're right in this. But just a few posts earlier, you were not so careful in choosing your words when giving a cyncial negative interpretation to Alix's words after Stolypin's death and assuming that she had bad intentions.


You're absolutely right. Mea Culpa. Fifty lashes with the wet noodle!
:-[

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #194 on: January 20, 2006, 10:49:29 PM »
Well, since you copped to it, I'm sure the sentence could be lessened.   ;)  Mitigating circumstances and all.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by grandduchessella »
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