Author Topic: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad  (Read 294900 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #480 on: November 25, 2008, 02:58:34 AM »
When one sees Alix in pictures, she looks distant and sad.

In her time, people did not smile in pictures as we do today and so to judge her by her expression would be wrong.

However, my husband and I recently celebrated our 25th anniversary and when I compare my own photo from our wedding day to our tenth anniversary to our twenty fifth, I see a great change in my facial expression.

Where twenty five years ago, I looked excited and hopeful, by year ten, I had given birth to our only son who is Autistic.  I looked distant and much sadder than I had ten years prior.  Now at twenty five years (Alix and Nicky had only 24 years allotted to them) I can see even more distance and sadness in my smile.  I don't do this on purpose, in fact, I don't even know I have done it until I see the pictures.

My life, with the exception of my son's ill health, is nothing like that of Alix's, but everyday disappointments and years of yearning and working for a "cure" for my son have left me looking much like Alix looks in her pictures.  I, too, have days when I would rather be anywhere else than a party or in public.  When my son was young, I refused to leave him, as the experts say one should do, to get some down time for myself.  I was on duty 24 hours a day seven days a week.

As the years have passed, I have become a sort of "wraith" in the lives of my old friends.  They became so used to me refusing their invitations that they ceased to invite me.  I was always tired and not very much fun any way.

When I first began to read Russian history, I disliked Alix so completely that I couldn't understand why Nicky married her or stayed with her.  Granted, she had not the training to be an empress (thankfully since I don't have that either, I am so glad that I would never have to try to be one) and she brought ideas into the Russian Court that were laughed at and derided by the family.

She was shy (but to me, that was no excuse as she knew the job requirements and should have worked more on learning them) but her constant pregnancies along with sciatica and the disappointment of not having a son and heir only served to increase her separation from the court.

Then to have that longed for son be a victim of medical fate and inherit hemophilia must have been unbearable.  Some women would have just broken completely at this point.  But luckily, Alix had Nicky and his support and love and the spine of a granddaughter of Queen Victoria.

She dealt with her tragedies badly, but she dealt with them.  That, I think, is at the center of all the controversy about Alix.

Would history have been kinder to her if she had just had a complete breakdown and retired from life?  Or is it better that she stayed (with all of her "medical" problems) in the fray and fought the good fight even if she fought it badly? (And believe me fighting the "good fight" can wear anyone down and then cause that person to make hasty or bad decisions.)

So I see her not as "snobbish or sensitive".  I see her as a woman, who like Jackie Kennedy Onassis, had to just keep on going, no matter how many horrible things were tossed her way.

Since I am not a public figure, I have a lot more latitude, but both of these women did what they could in relation to their times and their heartbreaks.   When Jackie withdrew from life to give her children a "normal" childhood, she was judged as well.

So not "snobbish".  Perhaps too "sensitive"  Perhaps just women dealing and making the best of the lousy hand each got.

Offline mcdnab

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #481 on: November 27, 2008, 06:09:21 PM »
Its always hard to be objective - on a lot of reflection and wanting to be charitable - i think she would have probably been an admirable consort and wife to a constitutional monarch she was a disasterous consort to an autocrat though. When i first became interested in the Romanovs and Russian history I felt remarkably sorry for her however the more i've read the less I feel sorry for her and the more I believe that she and Nicholas made some appalling judgements that ultimately led to their appalling deaths. A lot is made of the wonderful family life she creatd for her children - but to be honest she isolated them all at the Alexander Palace, i would be interested in a psychological evaluation of how her own health and Alexei's health related to each other, however that isolation would have had a profound effect on all the children and was hardly preparing her daughters for their futures. Much is made of how she was treated by Nicholas' family but there was considerable fault on both sides and unlike many other foreign brides she didn't do much to endear herself to her new family (her relationship with the Empress Marie was in trouble in a matter of months and whilst the dowager was in large part to blame she was in deep mourning a fact which escapes some people when discussing it), her relationship with her sisters in law seems to have been good though the relationship with Xenia appears to have become increasingly tetchy,  and she was clearly a driving force behind Nicholas' treatment of Michael following his marriage to Natalia Wulfert. She brought out the best in Nicholas as a husband and father and the worst as a ruler which is probably the real tragedy of it all. To blame her solely for all the ills of Russia in 1917 as some have done is unfair but she certainly didn't help and her political interference during the final few years of the reign helped prevent any attempt to hault Russia's journey to revolution.

Offline Romanov_fan

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4611
    • View Profile
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #482 on: December 01, 2008, 06:28:11 PM »
I think to sum it up very simply, Alexandra seemed snobbish, but was really sensitive. Alexandra came across in public as snobbish, but in private she was really sensitive. She of course believed in the class system of the day, and believed in autocracy and an outdated system in Russia- to some today that would make her a snob. But in the context of the time, she wasn't.

Lalee

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #483 on: December 01, 2008, 11:00:55 PM »
Really what made her seem snobbish was her shyness. Pierre Gilliard said that anyone with an unbiased eye could be able to see how sensitive she was and longing for affection. Her closest friends, like Lili Dehn, felt that she was the opposite of being a snob.

Offline nena

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2927
  • But every spring smells like you.
    • View Profile
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #484 on: December 02, 2008, 10:57:01 AM »
True is, when Alexandra went to ceremonies, she was shy, and people considered her manners as for one snobbish person. But indeed, she wasn't. She just didn't want to show her feelings and emotions in group, expext to her closest family - Nicky and children. 
-Ars longa, vita brevis -
Mathematics, art and history in ♥

David Pritchard

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #485 on: December 03, 2008, 10:14:58 PM »
Snobbish or sensitive ? Is this really the question that we should be asking?  Appropriate choice or inappropriate choice as a future Russian Empress is the question that I am inclined to ask.

Unfortunately Alexandra never made the transition from her early life in a minor and impoverished royal family with strong bourgeois tendencies to the role of spouse of an Autocrat of a world super power with an opulent Court. If we were to look at earlier Empresses, we would see that more prominent countries, Denmark and Prussia for example, had provided more prepared and worldly spouses for earlier 19th century Russian Emperors. After the obligation of providing a healthy male heir, the Empress' active and successful participation at Court and Russian society was her most important obligation. In both these roles, Alexandra of Hess failed. I do not fault her here but rather Nikolas II in not making an appropriate marriage based on the needs of the Empire rather than personal love.



Thomas_Hesse

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #486 on: December 04, 2008, 12:16:32 PM »
Snobbish or sensitive ? Is this really the question that we should be asking?  Appropriate choice or inappropriate choice as a future Russian Empress is the question that I am inclined to ask.

Unfortunately Alexandra never made the transition from her early life in a minor and impoverished royal family with strong bourgeois tendencies to the role of spouse of an Autocrat of a world super power with an opulent Court. If we were to look at earlier Empresses, we would see that more prominent countries, Denmark and Prussia for example, had provided more prepared and worldly spouses for earlier 19th century Russian Emperors. After the obligation of providing a healthy male heir, the Empress' active and successful participation at Court and Russian society was her most important obligation. In both these roles, Alexandra of Hess failed. I do not fault her here but rather Nikolas II in not making an appropriate marriage based on the needs of the Empire rather than personal love.

It seems to me that some of the posters and their accusations are much more "minor" as well as (mentally) "impoverished" than Alexandra Feodorovna's descent and horizon.
You are very poorly informed writing about the House of Hesse in such a manner. Actually it is one of the eldest traceable Protestant ruling Houses in the world, descending directly from Emperor Charles the Great as well as from St Elisabeth of Thuringia - related to Emperors and Kings of all Europe. Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain ordained that all her descendants are to be named "Mountbatten-Windsor" - a branch of the Darmstadt line of the House.
What you are calling "bourgeoise" is actually a strong trace of modern liberalism which additionally distinguised that family in a particular way.
Alexandra Feodorovna did certainly not approve superficial aspects of courtlife - she prefered achievements on the charity section for the poor and wounded. Many modern terms of medicine were adopted in Russia exclusively due to her work (esp. during the War).
Superb - judged by an modern eye...
In my opinion Prussia and Denmark provided nothing more than fashinable "dancing Queens" - in the real sense of the word. If this is what you prefer to see in the role of an Empress: than you might be right...
As regards the "healthy male heir": this was certainly not Alexandra's fault or shall I send you a book on Mendel, Mr Pritchard?

David Pritchard

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #487 on: December 04, 2008, 12:54:17 PM »
Actually it is one of the eldest traceable Protestant ruling Houses in the world, descending directly from Emperor Charles the Great as well as from St Elisabeth of Thuringia - related to Emperors and Kings of all Europe.

I am quite aware of the splendid genealogy of the House of Hesse but that does not address the real life importance of the dynasty in the second half of the 19th century when the Grand Duchy found itself under the thumb of the Kingdom of Prussia and later under the suzereignty of the German Emperor.

What you are calling "bourgeoise" is actually a strong trace of modern liberalism which additionally distinguised that family in a particular way. Alexandra Feodorovna did certainly not approve superficial aspects of courtlife - she prefered achievements on the charity section for the poor and wounded. Many modern terms of medicine were adopted in Russia exclusively due to her work (esp. during the War).

But this trait and the corresponding Biedermeier culture was not what was expected of the Russian Empress. It was foreign and incompatable to the members of the Imperial House.

In my opinion Prussia and Denmark provided nothing more than fashinable "dancing Queens" - in the real sense of the word. If this is what you prefer to see in the role of an Empress: than you might be right...

In the eyes of contemporary Russians, they were successful Empresses.

As regards the "healthy male heir": this was certainly not Alexandra's fault or shall I send you a book on Mendel, Mr Pritchard?

I never said that it was her fault but nothing was done by Nikolas II to correct this problem. He could have married a more appropriate woman without this genetic trait, divorced Alexandra for another royal lady or retained Alexandra, maintained the Grand Duke Michael as the primary heir; publicly disclosed the health problems of his son. The facade of Aleksei's health was destabilising. My views about Alexandra have very little to do with her as a person but rather the impact of her on a large empire and the millions of people who were reliant upon the Emperor to make well thought out decisions regarding their future.

Thomas_Hesse

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #488 on: December 05, 2008, 10:26:13 AM »

The "Biedermeier" area had long gone when the future Empress was born. Nonetheless it would be very interesting to read your own definition of that period and how you relate it to Alexandra Feodorovna.

Is it always correct to behave like people want you to behave? Did people expect Marie Curie to study, to get a Nobel Price, even to read? Did they expect George Sand to write, Elisabeth Vigée-Lebrun to paint? Outstanding things are rising through kind of outbreak.
The last Empress did not fit into the conversions of her times. Did Catherine?

David Pritchard

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #489 on: December 05, 2008, 02:15:17 PM »
My reference to the Biedermeier era was regarding the middle class family values that it spawned in 19th century Germany. While these values were fine for persons of that social station, that were not positive when held by a Russian Empress.

What seems to be missing from the discussion is the understanding that Nikolas II was just barely able to function in the role of Sovereign Autocrat and that a wife who could fill in some of his short comings would have been much preferable to a wife that magnified or complicated his weaknesses.

Alexandra of Hesse would have made a perfect wife for a British or Dutch prince but not for the Russian Emperor.

Your references to accomplished women (who did not hold sway over millions of lives) are hardly relevant here. Alexandra was not important in her own right but rather because of whom she married and the position that she held because of that marriage.

Felicia

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #490 on: December 16, 2008, 12:00:41 PM »
In my opinion, Alix was sensitive - and the Russian court, the atmosphere were strange for her - so she hid from others and left with family

tom_romanov

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #491 on: December 17, 2008, 02:38:05 PM »
I agree with you Felicia :)

historyfan

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #492 on: December 17, 2008, 08:37:31 PM »
The more I read, the more I am convinced - it wasn't Alexandra who was snobbish.  It was the Russian aristocracy!  Perhaps I am putting my 20th-century-middle-class upbringing too close to this flame here, but those people make me angry, the way they turned their noses up at her "ways".

David Pritchard

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #493 on: December 19, 2008, 09:05:20 PM »
The more I read, the more I am convinced - it wasn't Alexandra who was snobbish.  It was the Russian aristocracy!  Perhaps I am putting my 20th-century-middle-class upbringing too close to this flame here, but those people make me angry, the way they turned their noses up at her "ways".

But Alexandra was in Russia, so it was their ways that were the standard not hers. When I first lived in Russia, the Russians reminding me often that Russia operated differently than America and that I would have to adjust.

When in Rome do as the Romans do.

St. Ambrose, 387 AD

historyfan

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #494 on: December 19, 2008, 09:10:14 PM »

But Alexandra was in Russia, so it was their ways that were the standard not hers. When I first lived in Russia, the Russians reminding me often that Russia operated differently than America and that I would have to adjust.

When in Rome do as the Romans do.

St. Ambrose, 387 AD
[/quote]

I understand what you are saying, but this applies even if you are the consort of the ruler of the "Romans"?  :)  I suppose I still believe (in my 20th-century-middle-class-North-American mindset, lol) that they didn't have to do as she did, or like it, but did they have to punish her for it? 
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 10:00:00 AM by Alixz »