Author Topic: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad  (Read 275421 times)

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Offline PAVLOV

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #645 on: February 04, 2010, 06:38:19 AM »
Yes, but if you know your son is a weakling and unsuited for the job, then I think it is only natural to try and influence things. Firstly to save the country, and secondly to stop him making a fool of himself, and embarrassing the family. More so, when you know his wife is also incompetent and unsuited to her position.

I think any mother would have done the same. If I was in the same position as her, I would would have interfered hugely, rather than sit around doing nothing.  At least Alexander lll was a strong Emperor and did not need any advice from his wife. So I dont think one can compare the two. Its a pity he did not absorb the advice he was given by his mother and uncles, and applied the best of it. Perhaps it would have been helpful in the end.

As for using state money to bail out her friends. Lucky friends. Most members of the Russian Royal family abused the system anyway. The Emperor had carte blanche, and would hardly refuse his mother anything. I am sure this went on all the time.
After all, everything belonged to them.
Read Catherine the Greats Biographies, if you want to see abuse of state monies !!

Offline Janet Ashton

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #646 on: February 04, 2010, 03:44:40 PM »
Yes, but if you know your son is a weakling and unsuited for the job, then I think it is only natural to try and influence things. Firstly to save the country, and secondly to stop him making a fool of himself, and embarrassing the family. More so, when you know his wife is also incompetent and unsuited to her position.

I think any mother would have done the same. If I was in the same position as her, I would would have interfered hugely, rather than sit around doing nothing.  At least Alexander lll was a strong Emperor and did not need any advice from his wife. So I dont think one can compare the two. Its a pity he did not absorb the advice he was given by his mother and uncles, and applied the best of it. Perhaps it would have been helpful in the end.

As for using state money to bail out her friends. Lucky friends. Most members of the Russian Royal family abused the system anyway. The Emperor had carte blanche, and would hardly refuse his mother anything. I am sure this went on all the time.
After all, everything belonged to them.
Read Catherine the Greats Biographies, if you want to see abuse of state monies !!


We are not talking about the era of Catherine the Great, we are talking about Russia post-Speranski, post-rationalization, post-bureaucratization; the Russia of an active press which noticed imperial extravagance and certainly commented on Maria's. No wonder she opposed the freedom of it! Even Alexander III did not treat state funds as identical to personal ones: this was exactly the point that even Nicholas made in turning his mother's requests down.

But, since Nicholas learned exactly the sort of pre-Enlightenment "l'etat c'est moi" philosophy that Catherine's predecessors went for at his mother's knee, because he must never be examined, never be challenged, never subject to the same testing social and intellectual process as other kids, he grew up completely unable to distinguish between good advice and bad advice when his mother and others offered it.

Russian history isn't a beauty contest between Nicholas and Alexandra on the one hand and Alexander III and Maria on the other; the word "Russification" should really tell you all you need to know about what sort of a Tsar Alexander was - but of you want to think might is right, that's up to you. It leaves me wondering, though, exactly what your beef with Alexandra is if you find it OK for Maria to be irrational, erratic and stick her nose into every corner - isn't that exactly what you charge Alexandra with?
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
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Offline amartin71718

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #647 on: February 04, 2010, 04:22:51 PM »
Its a pity he did not absorb the advice he was given by his mother and uncles, and applied the best of it. Perhaps it would have been helpful in the end.
The advice of his uncles? THEY were the ones that demanded that Nicholas and Alexandra go the French ball rather than go to the hospitals after Khodynka. THEY were more afraid of offending the French (when they probably would have understood the circumstances) then their own people!
I'm back on my bull****.

Offline PAVLOV

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #648 on: February 05, 2010, 06:45:52 AM »
Yes, and his mother suggested that they should not go.  But he listened to bad advice, Grand Duke Vladimirs in particular.Because he was the eldest uncle Nicholas was in awe of him. Vladimirs bad judgement also contributed to the disaster of 1905. Not all his uncles gave bad advice. Had he listened to some of them, Russia would not have entered into the Japanese War. Had he listened to Grand Duke Sandro at the beginning of WW1 perhaps things would be different.
 All Heads of State have advisers, the difference is that some of them knew how to disseminate good advice from bad. Nicholas should have listened to his mother and declined the French invitation. Any sensible person would have done the same I think. He should also have listened to her when she told him to get rid of Rasputin.

So she was a bit too extravagant, so what ?
Apparently so was Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, and everyone loved her.
Alexander lll and Maria Feodorovna were far better at what they did than their succesors. Russians from all walks of life loved Maria Feodorovna.
She was a hard act to follow. Poor Alexandra.   
 

Offline heavensent

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #649 on: February 05, 2010, 07:08:34 PM »
Maybe she just did nt have the personality to take on the daunting role
of Tsarina.
  The Tsar seems to have been relaxed and very amiable.... a family man...
 while the  Tsarina seems anxious and ill at ease.
 Interestingly... in  one of these photos she looks remarkably like Lady Di !
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Offline PAVLOV

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #650 on: February 10, 2010, 10:07:26 AM »
Yes, perhaps a flattering picture. The eyes maybe.
Princess Di smiled though. Alexandra, hardly ever.

Perhaps her teeth were not all that good. We never see her teeth, in any of the thousands of photographs taken of her.
Her diaries mention visits to the dentist quite often, so one never knows. Perhaps that is one of the reasons for the non-smiling Alix.

The other reasons have been discussed ad nauseam.

Offline Teddy

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #651 on: February 10, 2010, 12:28:44 PM »
Pavlov, people in those days hardly ever smiled in pictures.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 12:31:26 PM by Teddy »

Offline amartin71718

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #652 on: February 10, 2010, 04:03:07 PM »
Actually, her skull testifies that she took excellent care of her teeth. And Teddy is right, people back then were taught to look somber or pensieve in photos.
I'm back on my bull****.

Offline heavensent

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #653 on: February 10, 2010, 04:10:15 PM »
and  yet, if you read my original post................

.......... " In Moscow I was shocked to find that the Empress's unpopularity amounted to hatred ... even as early as 1910 .
Because of Alexandra's English descent I felt a natural sympathy for her.... but gradually I came round to the general view of her as the evil genius of the country.

poor  Alexandra ... by  1910 ...  had become the  bete noir  of  the  Russian ... or  Muscovite  people...
what had the poor woman  done to  earn such disdain ?

It all becomes to look like a rerun of  Paris and  Marie Antoinette... she became a hated,  lampooned figure
and the fact that she was  Austrian  added fuel to the revolutionary  fire..........

Offline historyfan

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Re: Alexandra's Personality Traits - Good & Bad
« Reply #654 on: February 10, 2010, 08:25:04 PM »
Yes, perhaps a flattering picture. The eyes maybe.
Princess Di smiled though. Alexandra, hardly ever.

Perhaps her teeth were not all that good. We never see her teeth, in any of the thousands of photographs taken of her.
Her diaries mention visits to the dentist quite often, so one never knows. Perhaps that is one of the reasons for the non-smiling Alix.

The other reasons have been discussed ad nauseam.

You can't keep comparing figures from a century ago to figures from our time.  It's night and day.  Just their values alone, in terms of what is acceptable and what is not.