Author Topic: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists  (Read 91746 times)

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Offline StevenL

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #210 on: June 26, 2008, 07:16:11 AM »
I have known John Kendrick for many years. I do not share his belief in the Heino Tammet claimant. However, I have always found John to be a gentleman and a man of integrity.


I suspect yours may be a minority opinion. Gentlemen and persons with integrity can admit wrong, for one thing. Gentlemen and persons with integrity are usually not known for repeatedly and selectively twisting and misrepresenting information and re-writing history in a desperate and cynical effort to support an otherwise extremely untenable position. Mr.K. may personally be a great guy to those who know him personally, but his "the earth is flat" mind-games over the past decade have worn thin on many of us who share his interest in Romanov-related topics. His winkey-faced sniping and deceptive interpretation regarding statements about the charred remains this past week also do not speak to the gentlemanliness and integrity that you've personally seen. However, I'm glad you see and appreciate the good in him, as some of us who have not perceived it do find it difficult to temper our annoyance with him.

Offline Sarai

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #211 on: June 26, 2008, 07:47:22 AM »
$55,000 allocated to investigation of tsar family remains site

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080626/112233110.html

Offline Netty

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #212 on: June 29, 2008, 02:36:15 PM »
Expert Examination Confirms Ural Remains as Tsar's Family
http://mnweekly.ru/news/20080626/55335174.html

Experts confirm bodies of last tsar's children soaked in acid
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080627/112438372.html

Offline mikeycoleman

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #213 on: June 29, 2008, 10:12:27 PM »
Burning with fire and THEN soak in acid??  They really wanted to destroy those bodies.

Mikey

Offline nena

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #214 on: June 30, 2008, 06:56:29 AM »
Burning with fire and THEN soak in acid??  They really wanted to destroy those bodies.

Mikey
Yes, so sad . They did it with other bodies, also. But, we can see they didn't destroyed all remains.
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Offline Sarai

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #215 on: July 11, 2008, 07:48:34 AM »
House of Romanov rejects authenticity of recently found remains

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=4926

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #216 on: July 11, 2008, 09:09:10 AM »
Greetings,

Why oh why oh why does not Princess Maria Romonova not accept the remains as those of the two children of the Emperor if the DNA is a Match to A.F's DNA? Also why does she not accept those remains that were buried as the Emperor and his family? If the DNA is a match to the DNA of F.A. via HRH Prince Philip and therefore these remains must be members of the Imperial Family (and if not Nicholas etc just who else could it be?) and could not be anyone else. For that matter why does the ROC also reject these findings when every one with even a limited understanding of DNA can understand that if there is a match the remains must be members of the Imperial Family via A.F. maternal line. As for Nicholas he was confirmed via his Brother the GD George with a positive match.

Does this not bring into disrepute the Romanov family as a whole, unless Prince Nicholas comes out and accepts the DNA as the nearest living relative of the late Emperor and his family, dynasty aside, otherwise the whole things becomes a joke.

Any thoughts anyone

Michael HR
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Offline Annie

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #217 on: July 11, 2008, 09:46:53 AM »
Well Michael, we can only hope that Prince Nicholas, once the final results are released later this month, will do just that. The ROC has never accepted the 1991 bones, believing the old notion that the bodies were completely dissolved. I don't know why they can't accept the scientific results and know that the Bolsheviks tried to destroy them, but they didn't. I don't know what's up with Maria V. or what her motives would be for a denial. The whole accusations of a political setup thing sound like the conspiracy theorists who are claming (as I recently saw posted on another forum) that the Russian gov't and British crown are conspiring to falsify the results. This is a terrible insult and affront to all the scientists involved, because no matter what is alleged 'politically' it involves the work and professional reputations of several scientists and the labs they work in who would not risk everything to be a part of a conspiracy. The entire notion that the whole thing is a setup for the anniversary is right out of the conspiracists' playbook and will only give them fuel for their fire. However it must be pointed out that neither Maria V. nor the ROC believe any of the family survived and do not support any claimants.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #218 on: July 11, 2008, 10:06:48 AM »
MV is very close to the Patriarch and will go along with anything he says, whether or not she may actually agree with it. And I, like most here,  have no idea why he- the Patriarch- is being so close-minded and obstinate about this.  The Chruch is raking in buckets of money off the Romanovs, maybe it is afraid the largesse will dry up if and end is put to it?
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Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #219 on: July 11, 2008, 10:13:13 AM »
Robert,

The explanation I have heard is that any acknowledgment by the ROC that the remains are the IF brings up the Church's role during the Revolution and the imprisonment/murder of the Romanovs.  The Church does not want to be faced with the fact that they remained silent and did nothing while the titular Head of the Church, ie the Emperor was imprisoned and murdered.

This is the theory that several people have voiced to me.


Offline Annie

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #220 on: July 11, 2008, 10:19:15 AM »
Oh, that's almost as bad as the conspiracy theorists' idea that the British Crown has to 'make sure' no one ever finds out AA was AN because George V felt guilty over rejecting the Romanovs' asylum, and the family (via Lord Mountbatten) was active in the anti-AA side of the court case so they have to rig the results so they won't have to be 'embarrassed.'

It still makes no sense. By rejecting the scientific results, they are making themselves look as foolish as those who reject carbon dating and contend the world is only 6000 years old.(and probably flat) As Robert mentioned, they are making money off of the Romanovs, so wouldn't it be to their advantage to admit they've been found and revere their remains? This is so frustrating. I wonder what will happen with the final science report comes out.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #221 on: July 11, 2008, 11:16:39 AM »
I have heard that bunk about Church complicity as well, and the opposing views, which are more reasoned and is a majority opinion.  However, the ROC is just as authoritarian as the RC and what the Patriarch says- goes.  The ROC itself was in confusion; it had lost it's centuries old monopoly on the religous life of  Russia and was indeed about to struggle for it's own survival. It has nothing to hide or even apologise for, imo.
Another theory is that as the IF were  declared  saints for having died in a "Christlike Manner"  if their remains are identified, they  must be treated as holy relics, changing the status of their graves. [the Sts P&P  church  is a museum, not Church property]
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Offline Annie

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #222 on: July 11, 2008, 12:15:41 PM »
I have heard that bunk about Church complicity as well, and the opposing views, which are more reasoned and is a majority opinion.  However, the ROC is just as authoritarian as the RC and what the Patriarch says- goes.  The ROC itself was in confusion; it had lost it's centuries old monopoly on the religous life of  Russia and was indeed about to struggle for it's own survival. It has nothing to hide or even apologise for, imo.

I never thought about the  ROC not trying to save the Tsar, but they didn't, but I don't think anyone ever expected it or even mentioned it.  From what I read in Anna V.'s book, they did help hide those the Bolsheviks were trying to kill, and they gave her a new passport and identity while she was on the run. It looks like for the first few years after the Bolsheviks took over, the church still had its protection and immunity and that's why it was able to hide and help refugees, but later they cracked down more.


Quote
Another theory is that as the IF were  declared  saints for having died in a "Christlike Manner"  if their remains are identified, they  must be treated as holy relics, changing the status of their graves. [the Sts P&P  church  is a museum, not Church property]

Yes I have thought of that too. Especially these recent ones, so burned and few. They may have a creepy feeling about their relics being sent all over the world and tested in labs, and may have a hard time seeing them as "Holy" afterward, I don't know. But if that's the only reason it shouldn't make them turn their backs on them.

Offline Terence

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #223 on: July 11, 2008, 12:20:13 PM »
Does this not bring into disrepute the Romanov family as a whole, unless Prince Nicholas comes out and accepts the DNA as the nearest living relative of the late Emperor and his family, dynasty aside, otherwise the whole things becomes a joke.

Any thoughts anyone

Michael HR

Agreed Michael, that article makes it seem as the whole Romanov family rejects what is plainly obvious.  I suspect at some time in the future the Romanov family association, which Prince Nicholas heads, will announce they accept the remains.

Just to make a correction for the record, Nicholas is nowhere near the closest living relative of Nicholas II.  That would be the many descendants of his sisters Xenia and Olga.

T

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #224 on: July 12, 2008, 02:05:39 AM »
Very intresting views on the situation. I think the ROC has to face it's past, assuming it has one, and Maria V should form a mind of her own on the subject or face eternal ridicule for her somewhat silly views -v- the DNA evidence.

When the results come through the rest of the world should turn round and say that this is the Imperial Family and each and every member is accounted for and buried where they should be. They should ask the Church what they were thinking in denying this and not only making matters worse but dragging out such a painful matter.

I think Prince Nicholas will be the one to show sense. 
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