Author Topic: Remains of Maria  (Read 46295 times)

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Offline Holly

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2007, 07:13:43 PM »
Biologically, yes, people do develope differently but I'm not talking about everyones growth rates. Of course it's plausable that she grew maybe 1-2 inches or so. But it's extremely ridiculous to think that Anastasia's height surpassed all of her sisters within 6 months. How anyone could think that Anastasia, infamous for being short for her age, could reach about 5'8 within 6 months is something I can't understand.
Also, Anastasia was in despair about her weight; even remarking that she had not yet turned into an elephant but might soon, and if she had actually gone through such an amazing growth spurt of around 5-6 inches she wouldn't be gaining so much weight. Growing 6 inches within 6 months would slim her down considerably and Alexandra would've surely commented about it in a letter. The only letter I recall her writing around that time which mentions Anastasia's growth was the one where she says, "Anastasia, to her despair, is now very fat...round and fat to the waist, with tiny feet."
Olga was the shortest of the girls after Anastasia and as you can see in the picture on the left, 6 months before she died she was still a lot shorter than Olga. I find it strange that the body the Russians thought was Anastasia was Maria's height and the developement fit her age exactly.

"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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Offline Temperance

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2007, 07:40:16 AM »
Of course it is possible Anastasia went through a growth spurt in the last few months of her life but I think Holly made a good point that no one in the family wrote of any growth spurt. I would think they would have mentioned that in letters. Who knows though. I guess all that really matters is the entire family has been found. Whether the girl recently discovered with Alexei was Anastasia or Maria doesn't really matter.

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2007, 08:44:47 AM »
Some young girls grow tall very early.  I went to my full height of 5'6" by the time I was twelve and I towered over a lot of my school mates both boys and girls until well into our teens.

But to me, the pictures do show the heights more clearly.  However, pictures can be deceiving without a proper perspective graph.  That is why crime investigators put a ruler into the photos that they take at a crime scene.  Without a known perspective any item can look as big as a house or as small as a pea.

And it would seem in this case that no long bones have yet been found, so height may be a moot point.  Also, no intact skulls have been found either as yet, so facial comparison is also moot at this time.

Offline Holly

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2007, 11:47:56 AM »
Anastasia never grew tall at any point. She was always very short for her age and really hated it.
Though we may not be able to get an exact figure of height from pictures, you can cleary see who was tallest and shortest out of the girls.
Considering Olga was the only girl positively identified and had a height of just under 5'5, we can look at pictures and judge how much shorter or taller TMA were next to her.
Tatiana isn't too much shorter than Olga. She looks maybe 1 to 2 inches taller. That corresponds to the remains which show she was about 5'6 and at the least twenty years old.
Maria looks around 2 inches taller than Olga and 1/2 to 1 inch taller than Tatiana. That corresponds to the remains which show that she was 5'7 and a half and at least eighteen years old.
Anastasia is the shortest of all the girls which would make her less than 5'5. She looks about 3 to 4 inches shorter than Olga. That would make her about 5'2 - 5'3.

(I remember reading somewhere that Anastasia was 5'2. Does anyone else remember reading this?? I can't remember the source. ???)
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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Offline Annie

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2007, 07:49:54 PM »
I've been reading this site with several pages of very interesting insight into the skeletons and who might be who and why.

http://livadia.org/missing/remains4.htm

Falsetti and France support Maples' theory of "all of the skeletons appear to be too tall to be Anastasia," as was reported by Dr. France in the Forensic Conference last February in Reno, Nevada.

To us it seems rather obvious that a legend still looms in the back of the public's mind. There's a good chance that what the Americans did know about this case, previous to being assigned to work on it, probably came from the public interest story of Anna Anderson. Legend has no place in science, the fact is that Anna Anderson's DNA testing did not produce a match.


Maples was not alone, those two others agreed.

It is our opinion that, for different reasons, both the Americans and the Russians are guilty of letting their pride get in the way of a solid answer.

This sounds like it may be the reason for it. No one is going to admit they were wrong. But we need to know for sure, it's the right thing to do.

Offline Holly

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2007, 08:16:10 PM »
Alia and the rest made a nice page, but I don't agree with anything they concluded from it.
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2007, 08:08:35 AM »
I guess all that really matters is the entire family has been found. Whether the girl recently discovered with Alexei was Anastasia or Maria doesn't really matter.

Yes, exactly.

Offline Holly

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2007, 02:27:28 PM »
I guess all that really matters is the entire family has been found. Whether the girl recently discovered with Alexei was Anastasia or Maria doesn't really matter.

Yes, exactly.
Well of course. That's kind of obvious.
But some people, like me, would like to know who is who. Not only for historical reasons but to know who died from what injury. It would also give us clues as to how the murder actually happened.
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2007, 02:48:20 PM »
I guess all that really matters is the entire family has been found. Whether the girl recently discovered with Alexei was Anastasia or Maria doesn't really matter.

Yes, exactly.
Well of course. That's kind of obvious.
But some people, like me, would like to know who is who. Not only for historical reasons but to know who died from what injury. It would also give us clues as to how the murder actually happened.

Yes, of course I understand that. But unfortunately we will never know for sure, that's the bottom line... All we have are educated guesses on the part of scientists, due to the lack of individual nuclear DNA.


Offline mikeycoleman

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2007, 03:05:22 PM »
Alia and the rest made a nice page, but I don't agree with anything they concluded from it.

I agree.  And it is an interesting theory.  But I don't buy it.  The idea that Tatiana looked enough like her mother to be confused for her (in their state) is a good one, but Anastaisa also looked a lot like her mother.

M and A should have at least been close to the end of their growth.  O and T should have definitely been done.  So the heights is still an issue.  Maybe a bigger one with Tatiana missing.

Mikey

Offline nena

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2007, 07:09:15 PM »
I often look at Romanov skull pics., and to be honest, I can not find Maria's.....so for me, she is missing daughter......
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Offline Holly

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2007, 07:33:23 PM »
I often look at Romanov skull pics., and to be honest, I can not find Maria's.....so for me, she is missing daughter......
Besides my many personal reasons for knowing Anastasia was missing, I've looked at the skulls countless times and I've looked at Anastasia's face since I was little and I don't see/feel that Anastasia was there. I can feel Maria there. Not only that, but the body fits her description exactly. The tallest, about 18-19...etc.
You have to use logic and not faceless skulls. If you actuallly think about the remains they say are her's, you would understand that they cannot belong to Anastasia.
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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Offline dmitri

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2007, 05:00:19 AM »
What are your many personal reasons I wonder?

Offline Lyss

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2007, 08:40:44 AM »
The first time I opened "Tsar: the lost world of Nicolas and Alexandra" and came to the photo with the three skulls (Alexandra and two of her daughters)  immediately recognized Olga. It was like getting hit to the head with something: I just knew it was Olga. As for Anastasia or Maria, I never saw it clearly. It could have been Anastasia concidering the fact that Yurovsky wrote that they've burned Demidova instead of one of the girls (and according to his testemonies Anastasia and Demidova were standing together in the basement when teh shooting appeared, Maria standing further away from them).
The weird thing is, I always "felt" if Maria was the last one of the girls who died, being so far of the rest that night; Olga and Tatiana were holding eachother and screeming, and Anastasia and Demidova were together, Demidova fainting and waking up after the shooting. I just have this feeling they shooters didn't pay so much attention to (the killing of) Maria, being so busy with the others.
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Offline Joyann1

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2007, 11:33:03 AM »
well they did they all had 1 person to shoot at but i always tought it was maria because the russian source was more to me i dont know why