Author Topic: Remains of Maria  (Read 46279 times)

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Olishka~ Pincess

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #90 on: October 06, 2007, 08:20:03 AM »
Yes many think it was Maria who was missing.

'Yurovsky's note: when one of the Grand Duchesses was being laid on a sheet she supposedly sat up and cried out. The whole band of soldiers was said to turn on her with their bayonets.

This really deeply disturbs me :'( What kind of people could not have pity for the poor innocent girl who had managed to survive.

Annie, thats right. I is said they had not sympathy for the innocent girls. They just wanted them dead. It is very said. I agree with you Dmitri it was a completly brutal act. They were nothing but selfish rats. The bolshevik party was control by Lenin. So, they followed any orders that Lenin wanted and he indeed wanted the family to die. I think it is such a pity. It is very mean and cruel to keep shooting and clubbing the innocent girls and they ended up in so much pain and torture. >:( I think it is totally wrong and evil.

Offline anna11

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #91 on: October 06, 2007, 08:38:18 AM »
What I find more disturbing than the actual murders, is that those people can write and talk about them is such a cavalier way. It's almost like 'Yeah, well ya know, little Alexei was sitting in the corner and I just shot him in the head' WTF? Surley someone who commits a murder, or any kind of killing, ending a life (Because I suppose to them it wasn't murder, just necessary killing) cannot just talk about it so casualy? It's beyond me.


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Offline Joyann1

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #92 on: October 06, 2007, 09:05:07 AM »
yes indeed it was a very brutal act to do     especially theny didnt had any sort of trial .

look at marie antoinette she had an trail ( ok it wasnt a fair one ) but she had one!

Alixz

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #93 on: October 07, 2007, 05:46:56 PM »
One of the reasons that I have never liked the "insanity defense" for murderers is that, to me, everyone who kills is insane.

There are people in this world who have such a hatred for others that they can and do kill.  It is happening right now in the Middle East.  The "suicide bombers in Iraq" are a case in point.  They truly hate those whom they kill and truly believe that they will go to a beautiful "here after" for what they are doing.

One of the things that civilization is supposed to correct is man's cruelty to man or, if you like, "man's inhumanity to man".  We are the only species on this planet that kills for sport or revenge or anger.

It doesn't seem implausible to me that a group of men could kill seven Romanovs (including the young women and Alexei).  We have all either lived through or studied the Second World War.  The holocaust was a greater crime against humanity, but Hitler had no problem finding men to go along with his ideas and expedite them.

In some countries human life is "cheap", by which I mean, the killing of people in those countries does not bother people the way that it bothers us.  I believe in Russia in the beginning of the 20th century that those who fought the autocratic system had seen so much violence and killing not only in the Great War but also in the wake of autocratic decisions, that they did not hold the Romanovs' life with any respect at all.

To those guards, it was just another job.  They were just "following orders".  It may be true that some of the guards did not have any idea what the actual event would be like and the killing did make them sick.  But there were those, Yurovsky included, who no longer saw the Romanovs as human beings, but more like trash to be taken out.

Offline dmitri

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #94 on: October 08, 2007, 12:05:42 AM »
The collapse of the Tsarist regime put the former imperial family into a new and unchartered territory. They went from being people of extreme importance to ones who were deprived of all rights and eventually life itself. Given the growing political instability in the country, it has always amazed me that Alexandra and the children did not move to Peterhof which was closer to Finland than Tsarskoe Selo. That was where they had spent a great deal of time during the turbulent time of 1905. The real error of judgement was Nicholas II being at Stavka and not in St.Petersburg. He was able to be easily kept away from his family and held in a situation where an abdication was demanded. Poor Maria, poor Olga, Tatiana, Anastasia and Alexis. They were innocent victims who should have had the chance to leave and be spared imprisonment in the Alexander Palace, Tobolsk and eventual murder in Ekaterinburg.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #95 on: October 08, 2007, 01:01:03 AM »
... The real error of judgement was Nicholas II being at Stavka and not in St.Petersburg.

If Nikolashka remained Supreme Commander the military losses may have been greater. Information points to the fact that Nikolashka was not displeased with his dismissal. Nikolai II correctly believed that as Head of State it was his responsibility to assume command of his dispirited army who were retreating rather than advancing towards victory.

General Spiridovich claimed that Nikolashka knew perfectly well that it was because of him the Russian army had lost the battle in the first year.

Nikolai was not setting precedent by accepting Supreme Command. Peter the Great did exactly the same during the Swedish Campaign. 


He was able to be easily kept away from his family and held in a situation where an abdication was demanded. Poor Maria, poor Olga, Tatiana, Anastasia and Alexis. They were innocent victims who should have had the chance to leave and be spared imprisonment in the Alexander Palace, Tobolsk and eventual murder in Ekaterinburg.

Whether Nikolai was at Stavka, Alexandrovskii Palace or in St. Petersburg it can not be proven whether his destiny would have been any different. Essentially he failed to receive firm support from his extended family after his decision of August 23, 1915. Had the Family been seen to be cohesive rather than demonstrate fragmentation, much would have been very different indeed.

Following the Abdication, the question then concerned why the new Minister of Justice, Alexander Kerensky placed the Imperial Family under immediate arrest? His affiliation with the socialist revolutionaries helps provide the answer.

No one of course could predict the Ekaterinburg massacre. The Family died together as innocent victims of a brutal new regime at the hands of a sadistic maniac.

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« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 01:05:40 AM by Belochka »


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Offline Romanov_Fan19

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #96 on: October 09, 2007, 05:44:30 PM »
When shall we hear more     When will the bodies rest with their parents

Olishka~ Pincess

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #97 on: October 12, 2007, 06:51:12 PM »
Yes it is taking so long for us to hear about the remains. They were only inoccent people, who never did anything wrong. This is so sad.  Sometimes, I think that if OTMA would have lived, things would have been better. It would be so hard to say goodbye to them, becuase we miss them so much!
« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 06:53:43 PM by Elizabeth~Princess »

Offline dmitri

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #98 on: October 12, 2007, 11:37:45 PM »
Time will reveal all. The children saw the very best and worst of life in their short lives. They had the fortune and misfortune of being the children of Nicholas and Alexandra. These children would have always have been a rallying point for those who wanted the old regime restored. It was finished and their deaths ensured there could be no turning back.

Olishka~ Pincess

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #99 on: October 13, 2007, 06:00:55 AM »
Exactly, I agree with you dmitri it is time that will reveal to us, what will happen. We can agree that it is both positive and negative outcomes and things have happened in their lives. There is no turning back. Hopefully we will hear more about the remains of the family.

Offline stacey

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Re: Remains of Maria
« Reply #100 on: October 29, 2007, 07:27:08 AM »
I too am very eager to hear more about this--how did I miss it before, apparently the newspapers and other media here in the US have no interest in the Romanovs at all!!  >:(

Thanks admins for filling us in on this very important info!!!

About whether the missing GD is Anastasia or Marie is, in a sense, a moot point, I agree--what is important is to identify these two bodies definitively and if they are indeed the missing Imperial children, to reunite them with their family.

STILL--I have always tended to think that the missing daughter was Anastasia (and not because I have any belief in AA!!). The height and age of the girl identified by the Russians as Marie just never seemed right.

And if the news that this newly found daughter is 5'2.5" tall is indeed true--then she cannot possibly be Marie!! Marie was several inches taller than that--death doesn't shrink a person by 4 or 5 inches!!! But the height would be perfect for Anastasia, since her height has always been said to have been around 5'2" to 5'3".

And the fact that she is said to have been between 18 and 23 years is pretty much meaningless--at the time of their deaths Marie was just barely 19 and Anastasia barely 17. These ages are simply too close to say which daughter she was with an estimated age range of 18-23 years!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 07:30:00 AM by stacey »
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