Author Topic: What Difference Does It Make [if the last remains have been found]?  (Read 17348 times)

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Offline Tsarfan

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Regarding the breaking story about the possible recovery of bones from the Ekaterinburg murders, Grand Duke Nikolai Romanov, one of the pretenders, commented in a telephone interview from Switzerland, "I would be absolutely delighted if they have really found the remains of Tsarevich Alexei and Maria, but you have to be very cautious with such epoch-making events.''

How, exactly, will a new epoch be made if the bones check out?

Most people who study history seriously have long since accepted that the Romanovs disappeared from the world political stage in any meaningful sense after the revolutions of 1917.  Russian leaders have lost little to no sleep over a possible return of the dynasty since at least 1921.

If this pit does contain the bones of Alexei or Anastasia or Marie, will the Russian economy finally find a sound footing?  Will the Russian press recover its independent voice?  Will the dilemma of the decaying secret cities of the Stalin era be resolved?  Will Putin rethink his strategy of consolidating all power in the presidency?  Will cries rise up for a restoration of the Romanovs?  Will the inexorable march of the Russian state toward a Muslim-dominated demographic come to a screeching halt?

The last historically-relevant decision any Romanov made was to enter World War I. 

Finding a cache of their broken bones being a catalyst for the making of a new epoch?    Puh-leeze.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 11:59:25 AM by Sarushka »

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2007, 01:16:30 PM »
I agree. It would be nice to have the  missing children  buried with their family. And perhaps put an end to the endless  fight over pretenders. But, at the end of the day, it will not change the price of bread or lower taxes will it?
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Offline Annie

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2007, 01:34:40 PM »
To me putting the pretender thing to rest and putting the bodies to rest would be a big thing. It may not be 'epoch making' news but it is big news, because it's something everyone thought would never happen, like finding a needle in haystack. I'm pretty doggone fired up over it.

As for Russia, if this could renew an interest in Russia, its history and its culture, and encourage more tourism, that would be a positive thing. It also means a lot that the government is willing to reinvestigate the murders and reveal previously secret details. This could be a very history book changing event in that way.

Offline Silja

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2007, 02:28:56 PM »
Regarding the breaking story about the possible recovery of bones from the Ekaterinburg murders, Grand Duke Nikolai Romanov, one of the pretenders, commented in a telephone interview from Switzerland, "I would be absolutely delighted if they have really found the remains of Tsarevich Alexei and Maria, but you have to be very cautious with such epoch-making events.''

How, exactly, will a new epoch be made if the bones check out?

Most people who study history seriously have long since accepted that the Romanovs disappeared from the world political stage in any meaningful sense after the revolutions of 1917.  Russian leaders have lost little to no sleep over a possible return of the dynasty since at least 1921.

If this pit does contain the bones of Alexei or Anastasia or Marie, will the Russian economy finally find a sound footing?  Will the Russian press recover its independent voice?  Will the dilemma of the decaying secret cities of the Stalin era be resolved?  Will Putin rethink his strategy of consolidating all power in the presidency?  Will cries rise up for a restoration of the Romanovs?  Will the inexorable march of the Russian state toward a Muslim-dominated demographic come to a screeching halt?

The last historically-relevant decision any Romanov made was to enter World War I. 

Finding a cache of their broken bones being a catalyst for the making of a new epoch?    Puh-leeze.


I think the comment is "immaterial" - forgive me Tsarfan, it's not meant as an offence. Solving the riddle of the whereabouts of the two missing bodies is of historical and merely of historical interest of course.  It has nothing to do with current Russian politics and won't have any effect on it. If these remains are really those of Alexei and Marie/Anastasia all these theories about a possible escape could finally be put to rest.

Offline mr_harrison75

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2007, 02:36:22 PM »
I agree.

It's extremely interesting on an historical point of view, and perhaps it will help Russia to look back at their rich and very eventful history, but it won't make a General Monk of Putin...

Of course, the Romanovs perhaps still entertain a little bit the notion of eventually coming back to power in an uncertain future, so he must speak that way...
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 02:40:51 PM by mr_harrison75 »

Offline Tsarfan

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2007, 02:58:50 PM »
Now come on, guys.  I never said it wasn't interesting.  I've been all over these threads this morning.

My beef was characterizing it as "epoch-making".  Epochs are made when the course of world events takes new turns.

To me, the most use in finding these remains -- if they are whose they are touted as being -- will be to take the main wind out of the sails of those who have supported the various Romanov pretenders over the years.  Once a more general agreement settles in around the notion that they were, in fact, all   pretenders, then perhaps a thoughtful analysis can proceed about the psychology of pretenders and how they have managed to gain support throughout history.

As large as Anna Anderson looms in our own rearview mirrors, in the larger landscape of Russian royal pretenders she was little more than a historical hiccough.  There was a time, such as with the false Dmitri's and with Pugachev's rebellion, when Russian pretenders could ignite revolutions.  About all Anna Anderson managed to do was land some fancy frocks and get put up comfortably on a few estates.

Offline lexi4

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2007, 03:08:09 PM »
I have a feeling, that even if the DNA tests confirm the bodies belong to Alexei and his sister, there will still be conspiracy theories.
As to epoch making? Not even close.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Silja

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2007, 03:25:42 PM »

To me, the most use in finding these remains -- if they are whose they are touted as being -- will be to take the main wind out of the sails of those who have supported the various Romanov pretenders over the years.  Once a more general agreement settles in around the notion that they were, in fact, all   pretenders, then perhaps a thoughtful analysis can proceed about the psychology of pretenders and how they have managed to gain support throughout history.

 I don't think this has anything to do with current Russian politics. Whatever royal pretenders, real or false ones, have materiaized throughout history, they have been irrelevant with regard to Russian politics. In this respect I think it's totally unimportant whether these newly discovered remains are those of the Romanov children. Any republic which was a monarchy once has its monarchists. It doesn't matter whom the monarchists have been supporting as the "rightful" air and whether these were real or not.
So not at all epoch making.

Offline Tsarfan

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2007, 03:34:26 PM »
Whatever royal pretenders, real or false ones, have materiaized throughout history, they have been irrelevant with regard to Russian politics.

Not always.  Pugachev pretended to be Catherine's murdered husband, Peter III, and much of southern Russia rallied to his cause.  After initially failing to take him seriously, Catherine eventually became so unsettled by the inroads he made that she started backing away from what was left by then of her liberalization program. 

Offline ChristineM

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 04:57:56 PM »
I think it might have everything to do with current Russian politics.   Afterall alongside this story we are confronted with photographs of the 'sexy' president complete with waxed and oiled muscle bound chest.   Its amazing how photographers just manage to trip across the sight of their president, shirtless, casting a line on some distant Siberian river, while at the same time he is announcing building an entire new fleet of attack aircraft.   

Interesting, inexplicable conjunctions - probably just coincidence.

tsaria
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 05:09:33 PM by tsaria »

Offline dmitri

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2007, 12:31:07 AM »
All I can think of the statment made by Prince (please note he is not a Grand Duke and never ever has been one) Nicholas Romanov is that this draws to a close what was once an epoch in Russian history - the Tsarist regime. As for any connection with present day Russia that is completely ludicrous. Monarchy is part of Russian history. It has gone forever apart from the rich heritage left behind. As for pretenders after the 1917 revolution  and the well documented 1918 Ekaterinburg massacre, they have no relevance whatsoever. Russians never took any of them at all seriously. 

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2007, 09:57:37 AM »
All of this brings to mind how overblown anything to do with the Romanovs can be. I can recall buying "File on the Tsar" in the 70's and seeing "now every history book ever written will have to be re-written" on the jacket. Huh? Even a history book on the ancient Greeks? on Modern China? Absolutely ridiculous.

My point, and I do have one, is that this event may be significant for a small group of us - and will go ignored by the world at large.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2007, 08:41:50 PM »
Well, I think that it is important in the sense that it answers a long running historical mystery. But, it isn't of political importance for sure. I think it is a question that will aways haunt us though, until we find the answer, which we have. Therefore, it answers the question which we would never have ceased to seek the answer to. The remains seem to be those of Marie from the age estimates. Of course, it is always confusing as the old debates about whether Anastasia's or Maria's remains were buried in 1998 illustrate, with the Americans believing one thing, and the Russians another.

Offline Belochka

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2007, 09:27:36 PM »
My point, and I do have one, is that this event may be significant for a small group of us - and will go ignored by the world at large.

The findings were not ignored by the world at large.  Even here in Australia all the daily newspapers carried a brief report.

However to some of us of the findings if confirmed to be authentic, it will mean a great deal. A horrendous Chapter in Russian history will have its final pages drawn to a close.

For a few of us, it is important that the remains of Alexei and Mariya will re-united inside the common crypt in St. Petersburg where they belong. This is the philosophy of the SEARCH Foundation.

All those who are interred as one will always remind the world of their horrendous deaths.

So yes, it does make a difference.

Margarita


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: What Difference Does It Make?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2007, 09:53:07 PM »
"Brief" being the operative word. It is just a footnote  in history.  This is not making headlines anywhere but here.  How many threads on just this one subject?  As I mentioned earlier- somewhere-  it would be  nice to have the missing children  interned with the family and perhaps  stop  the  impostor protagonists. I doubt it will however.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.