Author Topic: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg  (Read 88729 times)

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Offline dmitri

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #180 on: September 03, 2007, 08:21:31 PM »
It is all very interesting. A sad chapter is finally being brought to a close and the remains found can within a definite period of time be tested and respectfully buried.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #181 on: September 04, 2007, 04:46:38 AM »
Lets hope it is and not people just trying to close a chapter.  ;)

Offline Annie

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #182 on: September 04, 2007, 03:09:28 PM »
... Think about this: in all those years of digging and searching, not ONE other body of ANYONE else has been discovered besides the IF! Not from the revolution, Stalinist purge, serial killer, or anyone else, rich or poor, from any era!. So those woods aren't the 'dumping ground' or 'full of victims' that some like to say they are, or other bodies would be turning up all the time! There have never even been a 'false 'alarm' other than the one that was near the Ipatiev house and turned out to be centuries old, but never, ever in that forest. ...

Annie you are correct!

The Senior Moscow Procurator (criminalistics), Vladimir Soloviev, has recently affirmed (August, 27, 2007) that information received from the Russian Federation Security Bureau:

... there were no politicals or any other prisoners shot or buried in this region during the last century between the 1920's to the 1950's.

It was confirmed that there were in recent years, hundreds of animal bones found as can be expected in an forest.

Margarita


Thank you Margarita! I knew I'd never heard of any and this makes it official. The straws the  naysayers are grasping at are sinking fast!

Offline Johnny

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #183 on: September 04, 2007, 05:58:40 PM »
Lets hope it is and not people just trying to close a chapter.  ;)
Eric,
Both sides of my family were thrown out of Russian during the stalinist purges. My grandfather, a wealthy merchant and land owner died still in his 50s away from his family, penniless within only 3 years of being sent in exile somewhere in central Asia. My father who kept his dad company for those 3 years (my grandmother didn't want her husband to be alone) quite naturally developed quite a distrust toward Russia. Even already living in the US and several years after Perestroika he was very skeptic of the going-ons in that country. So as you can see I am not naive and do not believe everything that comes out of Russia. But I think in this case you are going a bit to far. If you read some of my earlier posts on this thread you'll see I even gave you the benefit of the doubt and tried to defend you. You did express your opinion and we did ours. I don't think any of your sarcastic comments, such as the one quoted above, are very nice. If you don't believe the forensic scientists, then why don't you just wait, and someday when the truth comes out you will have the last laugh. I pretty much think the truth has already come out, not that it will make a bit of difference for the ones who died. Whether the bones remianed in the forest or were burried in a fancy casket in SP is rather immaterial to them. It perhaps sounds a bit twisted what I just said, but intended to be a consolation for those who want to keep believeing that these are not the right bones.
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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #184 on: September 04, 2007, 06:50:47 PM »
I have to say that Johnny is very much correct.  The former Soviet regime and the current Russian regime have never been the paragons of veracity, well even our own government is not blameless to be fair (WHAT weapons of mass destruction?).

That said, one must look at what possible GAIN would there be for the current Russian government to fabricate this? WHY would they go to the trouble and expense and risk exposure? Nobody would claim the throne, there is no money for any "survivor" descendant to get, it won't help press their claims to the North Pole, it won't solve Chechnya or put bread in anybody's mouth.  WHY would the Russians go through this excercise? I just don't get it. I'm not here to say the Russian government is totally "honest". However, there seems to be no gain for them to bother. This is the huge leap of (il)logic from those few left who claim this find is some sort of Russian fabrication, demanding "foreign" DNA tests be run, not because they think the US or UK or French or German labs are "better", but merely because they think the Russian tests are somehow "suspect" or rigged to produce a pre-determined conclusion. I just can't for the life of me see ANY gain to Russia from hoaxing these results. I can't see any logical evidence produced that supports the notion.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has real evidence to support WHY the Russians would rig the finds and the DNA tests...


Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #185 on: September 04, 2007, 08:25:52 PM »
I think the mystery has been going on for such a long time with various theories being thrown and more investigation being pointed. It is a much easier way for the Government to close the chapter by showing the bones and it would stop all speculation and further investation into the matter. One has to remember in the present regime, reporters are the largest causulties in Russia today.  :(

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #186 on: September 04, 2007, 08:32:48 PM »
But WHY would the Russian government care about the speculation? THAT is the point. What possible difference does it make to Russia, Putin or the regime? THEY had nothing to do with the murders.  this all happened 90 years ago. It has nothing at all to do with the Putin government.

I'm sorry Eric but your theory is without the smallest amount of logic as support.

You can't just say "well the russians are untrustworthy" (which IS what you're saying), there just has to be something more to it.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #187 on: September 05, 2007, 01:23:27 AM »
Lets hope it is and not people just trying to close a chapter.  ;)

I'm sorry Eric but your theory is without the smallest amount of logic as support.

You can't just say "well the russians are untrustworthy" (which IS what you're saying), there just has to be something more to it.

Eric your implication is highly repugnant and indefensible.


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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #188 on: September 05, 2007, 01:38:54 AM »
According to you perhaps...Anway lets see the results of the tests first. I bet a lot of people (yourself included I persume) already deemed the test irrelevent. They think it IS them already.  ::)

Offline dmitri

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #189 on: September 05, 2007, 03:04:35 AM »
Time will tell. I doubt very much the Russians want egg all over their faces. None of this would have been released unless they had been pretty well sure. The DNA test will finish it all and finally this family can be all laid to rest. After all it has taken long enough hasn't it? Their souls though departed almost an eternity ago. Let their earthly remains rest in peace.

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #190 on: September 05, 2007, 03:20:01 AM »
Why all the contentiousness?

Either the bones are or are not the remains.  DNA will prove one way or the other.

There are too many scientists and historians involved for this to be a "hoax".  To many ways for a "hoax" to come unraveled.

I think that just the fact that 16 years has passed since the original finding shows that it is not a hoax.  A hoax could have been perpetrated within days of the original finding with much less speculation.

It took the release of Yurovsky's notes and the expertise of those who read them to finally find the right site.  With the circus atmosphere at the time of the murders and burial, I am not surprised that the first finding took 80 years and the second 90.  Yurovsky and his men were not prepared for what happened after they shot the family.  Murder is a messy business and they didn't seem to know that. Destruction of so many bodies is also a very messy business and they didn't seem to know that either.

However, Yurovsky managed to get the job done and then left the clues and directions in his memoir and notes.

Now scientists and historians have deciphered the clues and now the world has the remains and the answers to the "mystery of the Romanovs"

So unless one still supports a "claimant" then the story is over.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #191 on: September 05, 2007, 03:38:21 AM »
Well I am sure the international scientists ??? would want to be a part of the action on the DNA. Will see... ???

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #192 on: September 05, 2007, 08:33:05 AM »
Even if we humor this silly notion for a minute, I think that if the Russian government really wanted to do this, they wouldn't have waited 13 years. They would have thrown in the decoy bones in with the original bones and be done with it. Case closed. Or they at least would have done it a couple of years later, not waited over a decade...

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #193 on: September 05, 2007, 09:08:53 AM »
Eric,

Why would the "international scientists" want to "be part of the action"?  Again, your implication is logically one of two possibilities and no other.  Either you believe the Russian scientific community is "incapable" of producing reliable results and the "international scientists" are superior in their expertise OR you believe the Russian scientific community is "dishonest" and "participating in a governmental consipiracy" to fake the results.

These continued statements are nothing more than unsupported defamation and slander of the scientists involved.  Unless you produce some genuine evidence to support these allegations, any further similar statements by you will be removed without warning or notice and may lead to your suspension from the forum,

Put your money where your mouth is, PRODUCE SOME SHRED OF EVIDENCE, or speak not further on the subject.

Offline mikeycoleman

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #194 on: September 05, 2007, 11:41:17 AM »
Of course other scientists in other countries would want to be a part of the identification.  In 1991, Maples REQUESTED that he go over to Ekaterinburg with a team.  Ekaterinburg did not seek him out.  I believe Gill's involvement was similar.  Having multiple teams doing the same work is not saying that the Russians don't know what they are doing, and it is a good way to check the findings (DNA can be corrupted accidentally, ya know!)

That being said, I think the Russians should complete their investigation and THEN offer cross checking up to other countries.  That way there is no sense of compitition for the final result.

I'm not sure what Eric is saying that is tweaking people so much.  Everyone here is entitled to an opinion.  Nobody here, as far as I know, is going to influence the outcome of the investigation by talking.

Can't we just discuss our opinions on this great discovery without getting our knickers knotted?

Mikey