Author Topic: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg  (Read 88728 times)

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Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #195 on: September 05, 2007, 11:46:30 AM »
I think it's a shame Eric just doesn't listen for a change. :( These scientists have done a wonderful job and deserve praise and gratitude. Finally this fascinating family will be able to rest together in peace, like they deserve.
Grief is the price we pay for love.

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Offline Janet_W.

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #196 on: September 05, 2007, 12:40:30 PM »
Can't we just discuss our opinions on this great discovery without getting our knickers knotted?

The answer to that, of course, being a big . . . fat . . . NO!

(In the meantime, anyone specializing in knicker unknotting should be able to cash in big . . . )   

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #197 on: September 05, 2007, 02:48:25 PM »
Of course other scientists in other countries would want to be a part of the identification.  In 1991, Maples REQUESTED that he go over to Ekaterinburg with a team.  Ekaterinburg did not seek him out.  I believe Gill's involvement was similar.  Having multiple teams doing the same work is not saying that the Russians don't know what they are doing, and it is a good way to check the findings (DNA can be corrupted accidentally, ya know!)

That being said, I think the Russians should complete their investigation and THEN offer cross checking up to other countries.  That way there is no sense of compitition for the final result.

I'm not sure what Eric is saying that is tweaking people so much.  Everyone here is entitled to an opinion.  Nobody here, as far as I know, is going to influence the outcome of the investigation by talking.

Can't we just discuss our opinions on this great discovery without getting our knickers knotted?

Mikey

Mikey,

What you suggested is reasonable, and of course the preferred way of things, that is what Helen means by peer review.  The problem that I have been having with Eric is that he is clearly saying that ONLY the non-Russian testing would be reliable and that the Russian testing would be meaningless.

I see nothing wrong with my insisting that he bring some evidence into the discussion to support his point of view.

Offline mikeycoleman

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #198 on: September 05, 2007, 03:05:28 PM »
Can't we just discuss our opinions on this great discovery without getting our knickers knotted?

The answer to that, of course, being a big . . . fat . . . NO!

(In the meantime, anyone specializing in knicker unknotting should be able to cash in big . . . )   

Hehehe

If this were 1991, I would agree that the Russian scientists findings would be suspect.  But a lot has happened since then, and they are very capable of doing an excellent job.

I do think other scientists should check the work though.  I hope they get the chance.  Honestly, I think the British should do it.

Mikey

Offline Jim Wilhelm

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #199 on: September 05, 2007, 03:59:39 PM »
Vladimir Soloviev, the Senior Moscow Procurator in the criminalistics department is presently drawing up Protocols, authorizations on similar lines as those he provided for with the first excavation samples. Soloviev was openly keen to use the expertise of accredited international DNA laboratories, and I believe that the same philosophy shall be applied here with this second case.
Please recall Margarita's response to my question asked earlier on in this thread. This is good, isn't it? What's wrong with this? Why can't we be satisfied with this? If someone says "this isn't good enough", well then that's bound to provoke a defensive response.

Jim Wilhelm
Albuquerque, NM USA

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #200 on: September 05, 2007, 04:17:26 PM »
Bravo Jim.  Spot on point. I'm still waiting for anyone to explain why the Russian testing "isn't good enough" to suit them.


Offline Belochka

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #201 on: September 05, 2007, 06:33:12 PM »
Vladimir Soloviev, the Senior Moscow Procurator in the criminalistics department is presently drawing up Protocols, authorizations on similar lines as those he provided for with the first excavation samples. Soloviev was openly keen to use the expertise of accredited international DNA laboratories, and I believe that the same philosophy shall be applied here with this second case.
Please recall Margarita's response to my question asked earlier on in this thread. This is good, isn't it? What's wrong with this? Why can't we be satisfied with this? If someone says "this isn't good enough", well then that's bound to provoke a defensive response.

Jim Wilhelm
Albuquerque, NM USA

It needs to be recognized here that the Russian Forensic investigations shall be conducted with the highest degree of professionalism and without prejudice.

Margarita


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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #202 on: September 05, 2007, 06:40:05 PM »


It needs to be recognized here that the Russian Forensic investigations shall be conducted with the highest degree of professionalism and without prejudice.

Margarita


Margarita,

I believe that most of us already recognized and understood this.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #203 on: September 05, 2007, 08:22:19 PM »
I think it would be safer to say some of us...since we do not have a vote here. It is the current political situation that fans my worry. Quite a few jounalist shared my concern. However it is not fair either to comment until the final verdict is out. Then it would be fair to make the final judgement. I really don't mind being the only one to voice concern and doubt. It is just like the Iraq War, people then were very defensive about it, but now their minds began to change. I do welcome opposing views just as long as iy doesn't get personal and abusive. It is not a crime to disagree, that is how discussions should be done.  ???

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #204 on: September 05, 2007, 08:29:54 PM »
Actually Eric, NO, this is not how discussion is done, huh.  Genuine discussion is where people offer evidence or proof to back up their position, not just blanket general statements without anything to back them up.


Offline Silja

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #205 on: September 09, 2007, 12:01:42 PM »

I'm not sure what Eric is saying that is tweaking people so much.  Everyone here is entitled to an opinion.  Nobody here, as far as I know, is going to influence the outcome of the investigation by talking.

Nor am I. I think nobody thought it a defamation of the French when Louis XVII's heart was tested by the Germans and Belgians. In any case, I, too, would want a testing of at least two independent labs to be entirely satisfied with the results.

Offline Annie

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #206 on: September 09, 2007, 05:56:10 PM »

I'm not sure what Eric is saying that is tweaking people so much.  Everyone here is entitled to an opinion.  Nobody here, as far as I know, is going to influence the outcome of the investigation by talking.

Nor am I. I think nobody thought it a defamation of the French when Louis XVII's heart was tested by the Germans and Belgians. In any case, I, too, would want a testing of at least two independent labs to be entirely satisfied with the results.

Even Howard K. Stern didn't complain that Larry Birkhead switched the DNA results, nor have any desperate guys on 'who the baby's daddy' shows, and that directly affects their lives! This is why I cannot fathom why AA supporters are always so quick to accuse of tampering. How would anyone do it and why would they want to? It's become silly and irrational, as well as a personal attack on the integrity of all scientists and officials involved.

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #207 on: September 09, 2007, 09:00:34 PM »
Annie,

For that crowd, it's already a foregone conclusion.  They have NO recourse but to assert the entire affair is some conspiracy.  It is nothing more than the last desperate straws which can be clutched in the face of overwhelming reality.  They have such a maniacal need to hold on to what they had believed that the ludicrous is the only means left to sustain them.

It is already brewing, there are those on the internet who have already condemned the tests as fake and fraudulent before they have even been done. Its sad, pathetic really, but then as the foremost DNA expert in Texas told me "There are those who believe the Earth is flat, and Man never went to the Moon." Elvis lives, the 9/11 attacks were perpetrated by the US to start the war in Iraq, yadda yadda yadda.

FA

Offline Belochka

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #208 on: September 10, 2007, 12:36:19 AM »
... It is already brewing, there are those on the internet who have already condemned the tests as fake and fraudulent before they have even been done. Its sad, pathetic really, ...

FA

The really pathetic issue is that those minority views on the internet are condeming not just the quality and professionalism of Russian medical science but also question the integrity of the Procurator himself, with their pre-determined assumptions based on nothing but their home-spun prejudices.

Margarita
« Last Edit: September 10, 2007, 12:38:07 AM by Belochka »


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Offline dmitri

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #209 on: September 10, 2007, 06:41:23 AM »
I agree totally Margarita. These people will never be satisfied. I can't wait for the DNA to be revealed as the vast majority of people will accept it and the others will remain on the fringe doing what they have always done - being in total denial of reality.