The Imperial Children's Remains Discovered FAQs. Please Read!

[Forum Admin]

Suspected remains of Russian tsar's children being studied

Yekaterinburg, January 9, Interfax - Forensic scientists have begun tests to identify fragments of what are suspected to have been the bodies of the son and one of the daughters of last Russian tsar Nicholas II who, with the rest of the royal family, were put to death by a Bolshevik firing squad in July 1918.

The fragments were found near the Staraya Koptyakovskaya Road outside Yekaterinburg and bore traces of homicide. Initial investigations suggested there were parts of the bodies of a boy aged between 10 and 14 and a woman of 20.

Yekaterinburg is the city in the Ural area where Nicholas, his family and part of their retinue were executed.

The Sverdlovsk Regional Bureau for Forensic Medical Tests and a lab in Moscow are trying to find out whether the remains are those of Alexey, who was heir to the throne, and Maria.

"I expect [the findings of the investigations to come] by the end of January or the start of February," Nikolay Nevolin, head of the Sverdlovsk Bureau, told Interfax.

"Tests started in December at our lab and in Moscow. When the tests in Russia are over, there will be confirmation tests at one of the foreign labs, one the Prosecutor General's Office chooses," Nevolin said.

It has been possible to obtain DNA samples from the remains, he said.

[Forum Admin]

With thanks to Sarai:

Remains found in Urals likely to belong to tsar's children
   
15:21    |    22/ 01/ 2008


YEKATERINBURG, January 22 (RIA Novosti) - Preliminary results of genetic analysis carried out on the remains discovered in the Urals in July 2007 show they belong to the last Russian tsar's children, the region's chief forensic expert said Tuesday.

The remains of a boy and a young woman were exhumed near Yekaterinburg, where Tsar Nickolas II, his wife, their four daughters and son, and several servants, were shot by the Bolsheviks in 1918. They are believed to belong to Nicholas II's son and heir Alexis, and daughter Maria.

"Tests conducted in Yekaterinburg and Moscow allowed DNA to be extracted from the bones, which proved positive," Nikolai Nevolin said. "Once the genetic analysis has been completed in Russia, its results will be compared with test results from foreign experts."

Nevolin said the final results would be published in April or May of 2008.

Initial studies revealed that the remains belong to a boy of about 12-14 years of age and a 16-18-year-old girl.

The tsar and his family members' remains were also discovered near Yekaterinburg in 1991. They were authenticated and buried in the St. Peter and Paul Cathedral in St. Petersburg in 1998, although forensic examination results have been challenged since then.

The Russian Orthodox Church, which has canonized the murdered Romanov family, called the 1998 burial "a political show."

[Belochka]

Wednesday January 23, 2007

Nikolai Nevolin, the Director of the Sverdlovsk Regional Forensic Medicine Laboratory released the  following information [in part] regarding the Interfax and a few other reports which appeared on the internet over the last day regarding the DNA testing of the Ekaterinburg remains.

« ... никаких официальных заявлений о том, что предварительные анализы подтвердили близкое родство юноши и девушки, чьи останки были найдены на старой Коптяковской дороге, и Николая II, я ни вчера, ни когда-либо раньше не делал.»

"... no official announcements about  the preliminary analyses that have confirmed a close relationship of the youth and the girl, with Nikolai II, whose remains have been found on Staraya Koptyakovskaya Road, were made by me, either yesterday, or any time earlier." 

«Как вы знаете, антропологическая экспертиза прошла и началась генетическая. Генетические исследования сейчас продолжаются в российских лабораториях. Из части костных фрагментов удалось выделить ДНК.  Как только работу закончат наши ученые, исследования начнутся в авторитетной зарубежной лаборатории.»

"As you know, anthroplogical expertizing was done and the genetic [expertizing] has begun. The genetic investigations are now continuing in the Russian laboratories. It was possible to extract DNA from the bone fragments. As soon as the work is completed by our scientists, investigations shall begin in accredited foreign laboratories."

Translation by Margarita Nelipa © [for A. P. Forum members]

[Forum Admin]

It seems I must remind users that this FAQ thread is NOT FOR COMMENTS and is reserved only for the publication of the progress of the investigation.  There are plenty of other threads for your comments on the news reports.

[Belochka]

Thursday January 24, 2008

The following statement [in part] was made several hours ago by Nikolai Nevolin in the Russian media:

«Я понимаю интерес общественности к этому вопросу. Но раньше апреля-мая никаких итогов исследования не будет. Мы работаем. Никуда не торопимся и вовсе не горим желанием приурочить окончание экспертизы к какой-нибудь громкой дате.»

"I understand the public interest to this question. But before April-May no research results will be forthcoming. We are working. We are not in any hurry and we do not burn with desire to time the conclusion of the expertizing on some celebrated date."

Translation by Margarita Nelipa © [for A. P. Forum members]

[Annie]

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,10916.0.html

Aug. 29, 2007, article from an Ekaterinburg newspaper, sent by a member who has a friend in Ekaterinburg (who translated the article) It contains very good information about the find, and may be helpful to those who have questions about the bones and the people who discovered and worked with them.

[Holly]

An article from August in a Canadian newspaper from Keegan Young. It has some very good information.

[Belochka]

The following was announced (in part) in Russia on the evening of April 1, 2008:

"Today the Armed Forces Identification Laboratory in the USA could not answer the question that was sent from Russia: whether the remains found last summer near Ekaterinburg belonged to Nikolai II's children.

Following the difficulty of the work the American geneticists have stated that the extraction of DNA from the obtained samples was not possible.

The investigation will be continued, possibly next week. New fragments for DNA analysis will be delivered to the military laboratory in Washington.

The problem is that of the 46 fragments of human remains only one third are suitable. From this third 3 bone fragments were delivered to America. Now the American scientists say that these fragments are not suitable for research, as they are too small and in bad condition.

In spite of the result from the University of Massachusetts, in the near future the scientists at the Armed Forces Laboratory in the U. S. A. and the Russian researchers at the Sverdlovsk Institute will conclude their work.

After that, fragments of the remains will be sent to London for examination by English experts. Only after that, if opinions of the scientists will coincide, will it be possible to end the infinite myths, disputes and legends about destiny of Tsetsarevich Alexei and his sister Grand Duchess Mariya."

Translation and information provided by Margarita Nelipa © [for A. P. Forum members]

[Alixz]

Margarita:

I am confused by a part of your posting.

The following was announced (in part) in Russia on the evening of April 1, 2008:

In spite of the result from the University of Massachusetts, in the near future the scientists at the Armed Forces Laboratory in the U. S. A. and the Russian researchers at the Sverdlovsk Institute will conclude their work.

Translation and information provided by Margarita Nelipa © [for A. P. Forum members]

Could you explain what it means?  In spite of??

[Belochka]

Margarita:

I am confused by a part of your posting.

The following was announced (in part) in Russia on the evening of April 1, 2008:

In spite of the result from the University of Massachusetts, in the near future the scientists at the Armed Forces Laboratory in the U. S. A. and the Russian researchers at the Sverdlovsk Institute will conclude their work.

Translation and information provided by Margarita Nelipa © [for A. P. Forum members]

Could you explain what it means?  In spite of??

Is the word "irrespective" clearer for you?

Margarita

[halen]

I can't say that irrespectiveclears up the confusion for me. I have been wondering what results are from the U of M and how do they differ (if they do differ) from the Armed Forces Laboratory.

Thanks,

Louise

[Helen_Azar]

I don't think UMass has the DNA results yet, I believe they only were able to extract viable DNA from the samples that they had (unlike Armed Forces Lab), but they didn't sequence it yet. 

http://www.telegram.com/article/20080404/NEWS/804040614/1116

[royaltybuff]

From April 4

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080403/ap_on_re_us/czar_s_family

[Umjetnik]

I find a clip on You Tube:

Scientist unable to extract DNA from remains: in Russian

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HaW7JWZw01o

[LisaDavidson]

Margarita:

I am confused by a part of your posting.

The following was announced (in part) in Russia on the evening of April 1, 2008:

In spite of the result from the University of Massachusetts, in the near future the scientists at the Armed Forces Laboratory in the U. S. A. and the Russian researchers at the Sverdlovsk Institute will conclude their work.

Translation and information provided by Margarita Nelipa © [for A. P. Forum members]

Could you explain what it means?  In spite of??

I'll try to explain this. There are various laboratories running tests on the remains found in 2007. I gather from what I have read that of these labs, the US Armed Forces Laboratory was unable to extract DNA from their samples. Because of this, they are being sent additional samples from which they (hopefully) will be able to extract DNA. Once sequenced, all these results will be compared.

I also gather that the Russians and another US laboratory (UMass?) were able to extract DNA from their samples - so the statement means, in spite of the fact that at least two other labs were able to extract DNA from their samples, the US Armed Forces Lab was not able to do this. In spite of this, results are expected in May or June?

A little sidebar - using different labs to test from the same remains is one way scientists can be sure they have accurate results. A few years back, it was alleged by someone on this board that the British Royal Family fabricated the Victorian mtDNA sequence from the Duke of Edinburgh in order to falsely disprove Anna Anderson's identification as Anastasia. What neither the Royal Family nor the poster knew was that the Victorian mtDNA sequence was first extracted at Brown University in the US. The sample came from Princess Katherine of Yugoslavia, a maternal line descendant of QV, as is Philip. Their results, because the tests were done privately, were never published. However, Katherine's and Philip's mtDNA exactly matched, disproving that there was any fabrication by the RF or anyone else involved with the identification of the (original) Ekaterinburg remains.