Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 7

[Janet Ashton]

Where is the hard evidence of any trip to Russia by the last Tsarina's brother, the Grand Duke of Hesse-Darmstadt? The answer is there in none whatsoever. The so-called "evidence" comes from the proven imposter Anderson who was committed to asylums on more than one occasion.

There is hard evidence that the trip or something smilar was at least contemplated at the highest levels. The evidence has nothing whatsoever to do with Anna Anderson, as even Annie now realises, and even in 1915 Berlin found it necessary amidst a storm of rumour to deny that the visit had taken place.

[Annie]

Where is the hard evidence of any trip to Russia by the last Tsarina's brother, the Grand Duke of Hesse-Darmstadt? The answer is there in none whatsoever. The so-called "evidence" comes from the proven imposter Anderson who was committed to asylums on more than one occasion.

There is hard evidence that the trip or something smilar was at least contemplated at the highest levels. The evidence has nothing whatsoever to do with Anna Anderson, as even Annie now realises, and even in 1915 Berlin found it necessary amidst a storm of rumour to deny that the visit had taken place.

Even IF the trip DID happen which is unlikely, there was still the book "In the Face of the Revolution" (B. Himmelstjerna, "Im Angesicht der Revolution", 1922, the publisher is Steeler) that openly accused Ernie of making the trip and claiming to have facts to back it up. This book existed THREE years before AA mentioned it. It's highly probable that AA and/or one of her supporters saw the story in the book and used it. This does NOT mean AA knew anything special or that she was in Russia. The revelation of the existence of this book completely destroys the alleged 'bomb' 'how did she know' part of the AA charade.

To put it plainly: AA/FS and/or her supporters learned of this alleged trip from the 1922 book and tried to use it to 'prove' she was in Russia in 1916.

(this does not mean I 'now realize' the trip happend, I'm only giving evidence that the rumor of the story existed prior to AA telling about it, so this proves AA wasn't  privy to any special secret or' inside information' 'only AN would know' as supporters like to claim.)

[Janet Ashton]

Where is the hard evidence of any trip to Russia by the last Tsarina's brother, the Grand Duke of Hesse-Darmstadt? The answer is there in none whatsoever. The so-called "evidence" comes from the proven imposter Anderson who was committed to asylums on more than one occasion.

There is hard evidence that the trip or something smilar was at least contemplated at the highest levels. The evidence has nothing whatsoever to do with Anna Anderson, as even Annie now realises, and even in 1915 Berlin found it necessary amidst a storm of rumour to deny that the visit had taken place.

Even IF the trip DID happen which is unlikely, there was still the book "In the Face of the Revolution" (B. Himmelstjerna, "Im Angesicht der Revolution", 1922, the publisher is Steeler) that openly accused Ernie of making the trip and claiming to have facts to back it up. This book existed THREE years before AA mentioned it. It's highly probable that AA and/or one of her supporters saw the story in the book and used it. This does NOT mean AA knew anything special or that she was in Russia. The revelation of the existence of this book completely destroys the alleged 'bomb' 'how did she know' part of the AA charade.

(this does not mean I 'now realize' the trip happend, I'm only giving evidence that the rumor of the story existed prior to AA telling about it, so this proves AA wasn't  privy to any special secret or' inside information' 'only AN would know' as supporters like to claim.)

Let me be clear about this: I do not know whether the trip took place or not. The point I am trying over and over again to make is that THE DISCUSSION and THE EVIDENCE FOR OR AGAINST should not involve AA, and her knowledge of THE DISCUSSION concerning the trip proves nothing for her.

Man......

[helenazar]

Let me be clear about this: I do not know whether the trip took place or not. The point I am trying over and over again to make is that THE DISCUSSION and THE EVIDENCE FOR OR AGAINST should not involve AA, and her knowledge of THE DISCUSSION concerning the trip proves nothing for her.

Man......

I think the reason Annie keeps bringing AA into this, is because AA supporters have tried to use this alleged trip as another proof that AA was who she claimed she was.

In any case, this is a thread about AA - not about Ernst's trip to Russia - so any mention of AA in connection to the subject is appropriate.

[Annie]

Let me be clear about this: I do not know whether the trip took place or not. The point I am trying over and over again to make is that THE DISCUSSION and THE EVIDENCE FOR OR AGAINST should not involve AA, and her knowledge of THE DISCUSSION concerning the trip proves nothing for her.

Man......

I think the reason Annie keeps bringing AA into this, is because AA supporters have tried to use this alleged trip as another proof that AA was who she claimed she was.

Bingo.

[Janet Ashton]

Let me be clear about this: I do not know whether the trip took place or not. The point I am trying over and over again to make is that THE DISCUSSION and THE EVIDENCE FOR OR AGAINST should not involve AA, and her knowledge of THE DISCUSSION concerning the trip proves nothing for her.

Man......

I think the reason Annie keeps bringing AA into this, is because AA supporters have tried to use this alleged trip as another proof that AA was who she claimed she was.

Yes, I think I got that....

In any case, this is a thread about AA - not about Ernst's trip to Russia - so any mention of AA in connection to the subject is appropriate.

Which is exactly why I raised it here rather than in one of the EL threads where it has been raised many times before, according to what I have come across and remember

Can we drop this now, please?

[dmitri]

Yes the sheer myth of the Grand Duke of Hesse-Darmstadt visiting Russia during world war one should very much be dropped, completely. It is utter rubbish as is the whole fabricated nonsense created by Schankowska/Tchiakovsky/Anderson/Manahan. She had nothing to do with Russian history or the Romanovs although she must go down as one of the greatest frauds and spongers of all time. 

[Annie]

Can we drop this now, please?

The reason the trip is being discussed now is because the subject was raised by Cody in the "photograph' thread:

What shocks me the most on Anna Anderson was that she knew that Grand Duke Ernest was at Tsarskoye Selo around 1916.  That was something not many Polish peasants would have known.  How then did Anna Anderson know that? 

Even though this isn't the right thread, I don't see anything wrong with it being discussed on this forum since it does involve AA. There is also a thread just about the trip, not AA, in the "Hesse-Darmstadts" forum. I know a lot of people would disagree or dislike this, but I find it impossible to separate the two (AA and the alleged trip) because every single time the trip is mentioned, it's usually in connection with AA's claim, or AA inevitably comes up. Keeping them as two different discussions is impossible, at least around here.

[Forum Admin]

Annie,

I disagree with you, and must agree with Janet A. It is EASY to keep the two discussions separate.  One can easily discuss the non-existence of the alleged trip of EL to the AP without ever mentioning AA... Try it.

[Annie]

Annie,

I disagree with you, and must agree with Janet A. It is EASY to keep the two discussions separate.  One can easily discuss the non-existence of the alleged trip of EL to the AP without ever mentioning AA... Try it.

It has been tried-many times, even in the Hessian forum. That's why I know AA will inevitably come into the conversation (and not because of me), the issue is addressed, somebody says keep AA out of it, etc. but it still pops up, every time. I'm not saying it should be that way, or I want it that way, only that it is that way.

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,91.0.html

[Cody]

Just so everyone can know, I made a comment about the trip in the discussion on the photographs.

[Puppylove]

I do believe if AA/FS could see us now, she'd be very disappointed!

Another issue on the subject of 'big deal,' I do have a hard time understanding why some people want to hold onto belief in AA so badly, why it means so much to them in their personal lives. Even though she's FS, it's still an interesting story! Like I've said before, there are men who get slapped with paying child support for a kid they don't want for 18 years because of DNA testing, and people put in prison due to DNA testing, yet I have never once heard any of them, though it affects their lives directly, yell foul, switch, or come up with conspiracy theories. Even OJ said the DNA was his but planted, not switched. I just don't get why it's so important to hang onto some faint hope and fantasy that she was AN. Maybe a believer can explain this for us.

Or extremely flattered to be remembered at all. You can't pose for pictures in a feather boa and then pretend you don't want publicity.

This woman should not be affecting anyone's personal life. Annie, it's cool to believe in a cause, but at the end of the day you're fighting battles with internet stalkers and other psychological case studies you cannot reason with. Meanwhile the war itself has already been won.

[Cody]

Annie, it's cool to believe in a cause, but at the end of the day you're fighting battles with internet stalkers and other psychological case studies you cannot reason with. Meanwhile the war itself has already been won.

Pretty much.  Unless it can be proven that the DNA test are wrong, those tests are the final word.

[helenazar]

I just have to add one more thing before I go to bed. I have spent today being stalked by an obsessed AA supporter who has been trolling my guestbooks. The IPs show that 16 of the 18 troll comments I got were from the same address, but they all used different names. Some of them were rude, some bizarre, others, almost threatening. I have had to shut both guestbooks down for now. I seriously don't know why this person is so extreme and upset, other than that I dilligently fight the AA myth. Apparently, this person wants AA's myth to go on so badly they cannot stand me or my site. I had to add this because it's another aspect of 'what's the big deal' and the way people sometimes behave because of this legend.

As creepy as it's been, I suppose I should take it as a compliment that they must see my site as some kind of threat to the belief they want to perpetuate. If it were useless, they wouldn't be so aggressive to attack it. Who? I have my suspects, most likely one recently banned from my site. This is, apparently, what the AA story does to some people.

That is very creepy Annie, but it just goes to show you how unstable some people out there are. It's probably just one person posting from different IP addresses. You should just ignore them.

[Annie]

I just have to add one more thing before I go to bed. I have spent today being stalked by an obsessed AA supporter who has been trolling my guestbooks. The IPs show that 16 of the 18 troll comments I got were from the same address, but they all used different names. Some of them were rude, some bizarre, others, almost threatening. I have had to shut both guestbooks down for now. I seriously don't know why this person is so extreme and upset, other than that I dilligently fight the AA myth. Apparently, this person wants AA's myth to go on so badly they cannot stand me or my site. I had to add this because it's another aspect of 'what's the big deal' and the way people sometimes behave because of this legend.

As creepy as it's been, I suppose I should take it as a compliment that they must see my site as some kind of threat to the belief they want to perpetuate. If it were useless, they wouldn't be so aggressive to attack it. Who? I have my suspects, most likely one recently banned from my site. This is, apparently, what the AA story does to some people.

That is very creepy Annie, but it just goes to show you how unstable some people out there are. It's probably just one person posting from different IP addresses. You should just ignore them.

Actually I got trolled by 13 different names with the same IP address!