Author Topic: Prince William and Kate Middleton  (Read 241903 times)

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Offline mcdnab

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #465 on: January 19, 2011, 07:11:42 AM »
On her marriage she becomes automatically Princess William of Wales and Royal Highness. It is usual in recent history for Prince's of The Blood with no other title to be granted a title to avoid the confusion over their wives styles. The Queen doesn't request a title to be granted she simply grants it.
One other option that few people have pointed out is that William could simply use a courtesy title (one of his father's lesser one's - for example Earl of Chester).
The Wales style issue is a silly one - we've had Princesses of Wales for centuries. Camilla is legally Princess of Wales but doesn't use it because of sensitivities over the late Diana which is understandable if rather daft. In due course i have no doubt Catherine will be Princess of Wales (on Charles accession to the throne). She certainly will become Duchess of Cornwall at the moment Charles becomes King (the title is automatic to the male heir to the throne whilst Wales has to be created).
One current problem is the lack of traditional royal titles - Victoria avoided the traditional ones for her children because of the associations with her own Hannoverian Uncles - but used traditional titles for her grandsons - Duke of Clarence for Prince Eddie (first used for the second son of Edward III and again for the eldest brother of Edward IV - fell out of useage and York became the preferred title for a second son) and Duke of York for the the future George V.
George V reverted to tradition - using York, Gloucester and Kent for his second, third and fourth surviving sons. The present Queen used tradition for her second son but respected the wishes of her youngest son with regard his wish to have his father's Dukedom which he can only have on the death of the Queen and Prince Philip (as a new creation).
The only really vacant ones are Clarence and Cambridge (Clarence has dodgy associations - the murder of George Duke of Clarence in the 1470s and the early death of Prince Eddie - Edward VII's eldest son) - Cambridge is a relatively recent royal dukedom (first used in the 17th century for sons of the Duke of York who was heir presumptive as the brother of Charles II)  but has strong associations for the Queen as Queen Mary's mother was the sister of the last Hannoverian Duke of Cambridge (who married in contravention of the Royal Marriages Act and couldn't pass the title to his descendants) - Queen Mary's brother Adolphus was created Marquess of Cambridge in 1917 when he relinquished his German styles the title is now extinct though.
Most of the traditional titles aren't extinct and not likely to be - Kent and Gloucester have plenty of heirs and spares, York won't fall vacant again until the death of Prince Andrew (his daughters can't inherit it). Of the titles used by the Hannoverians and for Queen Victoria's sons - Albany is suspended (but belongs to the descendants of the Duke of Saxe Cogurg Gotha), Cumberland is also suspended (would by rights belong to Prince Ernst of Hannover), Edinburgh is held by the Queen's husband, and Connaught is extinct but unlikely because it is an Irish province.

There is of course nothing to stop the Queen (and William) choosing any title though!

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #466 on: January 19, 2011, 09:16:35 AM »
What, you don't think she'd consider Duke of Windsor for William?  :) ;)

I favor Cambridge--it just seems right somehow. And the Cambridges brought a good deal of duty and responsibility to the throne whether as a Duke or a Marquess. And there is the connection with Queen Mary as well, tying the whole thing back to George III.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #467 on: January 19, 2011, 09:34:28 AM »
To my mind the title Duke of Windsor is indelibly associated with the former Edward VIII, who remains a very touchy subject for the royal family even now.

That is one title the Queen is not going to choose for her grandson. Cambridge has the great advantage of being reasonably uncontroversial and with beneficial associations (Queen Mary and two of her brothers).

Ann

Offline mcdnab

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #468 on: January 19, 2011, 11:00:41 AM »

I agree Windsor is extremely unlikely -  has no tradition at all and unpleasent memories for the Queen in particular.
Personally if it wasn't the awkwardness of Catherine becoming Princess William i think William would have happily waited until his father's accession and with it his elevation to the Dukedom of Cornwall and probably fairly quickly his creation as Prince of Wales.
The public and press will almost certainlyrefer to her as Princess Catherine despite its innacuracy as they did with the late Diana the advantage of a title is that it tend to prevents it from happening as it did with the Duchess of York and has done with the Countess of Wessex.
 

bonbon823

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #469 on: January 19, 2011, 01:32:54 PM »
Although the Queen did love her Uncle David; do you think she'd want to honor him by bestowing the title on her grandson?  I suppose it would be too controversial...

Offline Grace

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #470 on: January 19, 2011, 01:49:44 PM »
I think it was made plain at the time Edward received the title Duke of Windsor that it was a one off title exclusively for him and would not be used again in the future for anybody.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #471 on: January 19, 2011, 03:28:50 PM »
Well...It would be too far to say that when William becomes king, the Dukedom of Windsor is still a closed subject. Who knows ? Maybe one of his children will be the second Duke of Windsor. But I think Clarence & Cambridge is the closest ones for the Queen to give to William.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #472 on: January 19, 2011, 05:02:29 PM »
To my mind the title Duke of Windsor is indelibly associated with the former Edward VIII, who remains a very touchy subject for the royal family even now.

That is one title the Queen is not going to choose for her grandson. Cambridge has the great advantage of being reasonably uncontroversial and with beneficial associations (Queen Mary and two of her brothers).

Ann

Although the Queen did love her Uncle David; do you think she'd want to honor him by bestowing the title on her grandson?  I suppose it would be too controversial...



It was a joke, you know. That's why the smiley and the wink. OF COURSE she wouldn't give him that title. I didn't think anyone would believe it was serious consideration.  :o
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 05:05:01 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline Lucien

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #473 on: January 19, 2011, 11:17:20 PM »
Je Maintiendrai

Offline Lucien

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Je Maintiendrai

Ilias_of_John

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #475 on: January 27, 2011, 12:15:07 AM »
It was reported that the palace did not want to burden young Katherine with legacy of the title of Princess of Wales, which is indelibly linked to Diana, Princess of Wales.  Also, my understanding is that the Queen, being the font of honors, may request that the Dukedom of Cambridge be bestowed on her grandchild Prince William and his wife.

Firstly,
Her Majesty doesent need to request anything to anyone to bestow a title to anyone.
Secondly,
It is my understanding that Prince William will become Duke and hence his  bride will be known as HRH Princess Katherine, Duchess of ??????

Offline Grace

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #476 on: January 27, 2011, 05:14:06 AM »
Doesn't she have to be born a princess to ever attain the title "HRH Princess Katherine"?  Even as the Prince of Wales' wife, Diana was never "HRH Princess Diana" regardless of how often she was referred to as this.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #477 on: January 27, 2011, 06:00:35 AM »
'Doesn't she have to be born a princess to ever attain the title "HRH Princess Katherine"?  Even as the Prince of Wales' wife, Diana was never "HRH Princess Diana" regardless of how often she was referred to as this.'

Yes, unless she is specifically created a Princess in her own right by the Queen. Recent example is HRH Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester, who was simply HRH the Duchess of Gloucester in her husband's lifetime, but was then created a princess.

William's wife will be either HRH Princess William, or HRH the Duchess of X.

I am fed up with 'Princess Diana'!

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #478 on: January 27, 2011, 09:39:28 AM »
I wonder, when Katherine becomes queen, will people nitpick about how it presumably is technically incorrect to refer to her as Queen Katherine instead of The Queen?

Offline Grace

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Re: Prince William and Kate Middleton
« Reply #479 on: January 27, 2011, 02:54:05 PM »
Calling someone by their correct name and title does not necessarily mean nitpicking.  Isn't it just getting it right?  Do we have to be slack about absolutely everything these days?!!