Author Topic: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II  (Read 196339 times)

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Offline Michael HR

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #225 on: August 01, 2008, 07:01:29 AM »
I really hope so or all the work of George VI and Elizibeth II will be lost.
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Norbert

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #226 on: August 01, 2008, 07:16:20 AM »
I'm amazed how ones words can be mis-read . The British monarch can only represent the Church of England, as She and hopefully He is it's Head. However I believe like the Pr of Wales that British subjects of other faiths can be included and have a role in the coronaton rite from Jews to Buddhists.

Offline TampaBay

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #227 on: August 01, 2008, 07:54:08 AM »

But, and this is a big but for me, there is a smugness about this couple that I simply find a major source of irritation.  I really feel that they consider themselves to be home and dry and that they imagine that nobody really has too much of an opinion about what has gone before and how it reflects upon them.  I suspect that some people still do care and do have an opinion about this, whether it is positive or negative, but we have simply been swamped by spin intended to boost both their profiles, not to mention that of other members of the RF, both living and dead.  I strongly suspect that this is just plain revisionism, which personally I find offensive.


IMO the smugness so well described by Martyn is due almost 100% to Charles. 

I think Camilla very well understands,  "that some people still do care and do have an opinion about this, whether it is positive or negative, but we have simply been swamped by spin intended to boost both their profiles".  I do not think, as I have stated many times on this forum, that she wanted to marry Charles, that she wanted to be Queen or have any type of public role.

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Offline Martyn

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #228 on: August 01, 2008, 09:49:31 AM »
. However the monarchy is the blood in our cultural identity in the Uk and George VII will make a good King

Is that the case?  Most of the people that I know (middle class, educated professional, 30 and upwards) don't really give a toss about the monarchy and I'm not sure that I do any more.

Just because we've had it for so long does not necessarily mean that we still need it.  Let's not forget as well that we also have a history of booting them out when they're not up to it, and even separating their heads from their bodies when circumstances require........

The whole idea that the accident of birth brings with it automatic wealth, privilege and status is such an idiotic notion and I can't believe that in this day and age we still subscribe to it.......
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CHRISinUSA

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #229 on: August 01, 2008, 11:08:37 AM »
. However the monarchy is the blood in our cultural identity in the Uk and George VII will make a good King
The whole idea that the accident of birth brings with it automatic wealth, privilege and status is such an idiotic notion and I can't believe that in this day and age we still subscribe to it.......

That topic probably deserves its own thread!  But before a moderator zaps us back onto the topic of Camilla in this thread, I'll throw in my 2 cents!!! 

As much as I am fascinated by monarchy and royalty as an institution (with all its associated glamour and trappings), I have often found myself wondering "But is it right that someone obtains their rank and position by hereditary accident?  But then I look at the bigger picture.

Throughout history, In any society one small group always rises to become leaders - depending on the needs of the particular society.  Among cavemen, those with the greatest physical strength became leaders.  Later, those who proved to be the best warriors.  Then, the ones able to lead armies.  Later, those who were educated enough to be able to read and write.  Then those who controlled the pillars of economy (first landowners, then industrial owners).  Throughout all this, leaders of religions and churches also held sway.

Today, we have leaders in a variety of areas.  Our elected politicans control our governments.  Our chosen celebrities control our cultures.  Our leaders of industry control our economies.  And in that context, I believe monarchy serves its own role too.  Royals no longer govern, they no longer control economies.  But they do provide the personalification of a country's history and identity - to their own people and to the rest of the world.  They are a cultural institution that continues with the generations.

In the United States we have always lacked that personification of our nation.  Sure, we have a President - but his actions as Head of Government always overshadow his role as Head of State.  When our President attend an event, it is always tinged with politics that overshadow the real purpose of the event.  The job of the Vice President used to be pretty much ceremonial, going to funerals and inaugurations abroad, and attending other functions that the President wasn't available for.  But how many people remember who the US VP was in, say, 1928?  How about 1954?  Nobody is very impressed with them. 

In contrast, when Queen Elizabeth II, or the PoW, or the Crown Prince of Japan, attends an event, people sits up and notice - they pay attention and it brings a level of prestige and grandeur to the event.  I recently read a story of when George VI and Queen Elizabeth openeded a war memorial during their 1938 tour of Canada and the US.  Witnesses wrote that the old soliders from World War I respectfully parted to form lanes for the King and Queen to walk through, many with tears in their eyes at being so close to the royal couple.  It meant so much to them.

Is that subjective and emotive reasoning for monarchy worth the cost?  Well, that's for the people of the monarchies of the world to decide.  In the end,  tend to think it is.

Norbert

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #230 on: August 01, 2008, 11:13:02 AM »
. However the monarchy is the blood in our cultural identity in the Uk and George VII will make a good King

Is that the case?  Most of the people that I know (middle class, educated professional, 30 and upwards) don't really give a toss about the monarchy and I'm not sure that I do any more.

Just because we've had it for so long does not necessarily mean that we still need it.  Let's not forget as well that we also have a history of booting them out when they're not up to it, and even separating their heads from their bodies when circumstances require........

The whole idea that the accident of birth brings with it automatic wealth, privilege and status is such an idiotic notion and I can't believe that in this day and age we still subscribe to it.......






Thats your personal opinion...it's a free monarchy. Certainly , most people i know are very fond of our monarchy and would not wish to flush it away .

Robert_Hall

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #231 on: August 01, 2008, 11:40:05 AM »
I tend to agree with Martyn.  Most, if not all of my British friends are apathetic at best about the monarchy. Downright republicans at the other end. And, over the past 30 years, I know a LOT of British folks. Not one would dream of getting rid of the present Queen, but when the C&C show comes on stage, a big yawn from most.   I do not blame Camilla though. I get the impression that Charles forced the limelight on her, just to get his way. She  most likely would have been happy being the country mistress, with her horsey friends.  She really looks uncomfortable and out-of-place in these public appearances. Her clothes have improved a bit, but that hair went out decades ago.
 Whatever Charles calls himself, I think he sees himself as a reincarnation of the past 2 Edwards.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #232 on: August 01, 2008, 11:55:44 AM »
Yes...I think Camilla went out in the limelight because of Charles. She would have been happier being a country wife...

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #233 on: August 01, 2008, 12:01:17 PM »
. However the monarchy is the blood in our cultural identity in the Uk and George VII will make a good King
The whole idea that the accident of birth brings with it automatic wealth, privilege and status is such an idiotic notion and I can't believe that in this day and age we still subscribe to it.......

That topic probably deserves its own thread! 

It has one:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=6834.0
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Norbert

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #234 on: August 01, 2008, 12:23:31 PM »
What a wonderful set of republicans you are eh? bully for you

CHRISinUSA

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #235 on: August 01, 2008, 02:10:26 PM »
I tend to agree with Martyn.  Most, if not all of my British friends are apathetic at best about the monarchy. Downright republicans at the other end. And, over the past 30 years, I know a LOT of British folks. Not one would dream of getting rid of the present Queen, but when the C&C show comes on stage, a big yawn from most.   I do not blame Camilla though. I get the impression that Charles forced the limelight on her, just to get his way. She  most likely would have been happy being the country mistress, with her horsey friends.  She really looks uncomfortable and out-of-place in these public appearances. Her clothes have improved a bit, but that hair went out decades ago.
 Whatever Charles calls himself, I think he sees himself as a reincarnation of the past 2 Edwards.

So Robert, would you say that it is monarchy as an institution which brings about that apathy, or Charles in particular?

Because the latter would suggest this the apathy is but another blip on the radar screen - that following the probably short reign of C&C they could be a chance for the popularity of the monarchy to surge again.

But if its the former, well, wouldn't matter who is on the throne...it's just doomed.

Robert_Hall

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #236 on: August 01, 2008, 02:31:19 PM »
In my opinion, the apathy is due to Charles.  There is genuine interest in a younger set- namely William.
 However, the constitutional role , unlessl it is changed or evolved, will ultimately lead to it's demise.
 Monarchy also needs popularity.  C&C just do not have it, except from forelock pulling obsequious idol worshiping royalists.
 Personally, I would like to see it evole with the times, like the  other monarchies of Europe have. But, it is not the reason I  come to England so often, not the reason I plan to move there.
 Again, I have nothing against Camilla.  I just think she preferrred being the country mistress, not the wife of a future king. I actually like the fact that she  has kept her  own home, to get away on her own, although I resent the tax money paid to "protect" it. [and I DO pay UK taxes]

Norbert

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #237 on: August 01, 2008, 04:53:38 PM »
Certainly you will never hear a Brit praising anything, especially his country . Attacking institutions and especially the Monarch or the government is a national past time. For example, British people are profoundly shocked to see Americans pledging themselves to their flag. I presume thats why the Monarchy has survived so strongly just because we could not respect anyone to take the Sovereigns place. Sorry, Martyn, Robert and fellow republicans, the British Monarchy is alive and well, and we are looking forward to the royal wedding next year.

Offline Grace

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #238 on: August 01, 2008, 05:10:25 PM »
What royal wedding next year?

Robert_Hall

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Re: Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, Part II
« Reply #239 on: August 01, 2008, 09:57:07 PM »
Norbert, what makes you classify me as a republican?  I have not given my position at all, just relating those of the friends I have in Britain.   And who are "we"?  I spend a lot of time in Britain and am a close observer and listener. I would say your  views are a distinct minority. Most people  just are trying to get by and could give less than a fig for royal fro-fro.
 I imagine Camilla feels the same.