Author Topic: Windsor Jewels Pt 7  (Read 240071 times)

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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #285 on: December 30, 2011, 08:38:05 AM »
For the diamond tiara, you mean the fringe that could be used as a necklace (at her wedding) and a tiara (at the coronation of Edward VII).

Brassov

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #286 on: March 05, 2012, 06:28:34 AM »
This topic is fascinating, and everyone has so much knowledge. May I ask if anyone knows wether HM The Queen ever wears the fringe tiara ? There is a beautiful photograph of her wearing it at the beginning of this topic ( Part 7 ), together with Mrs Greville's Ruby necklace. I dont recall seeing her wearing it subsequently.

I dont want to sound unkind, but looking at all this wonderful jewellery and the obvious pleasure it has given the family over the years, I am dreading the possiblility that Fergie's daughters, given their lack of taste, will ever inherite any of these wonderful pieces !!! ( I have just slapped myself on the wrist ) !

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #287 on: March 05, 2012, 08:52:31 AM »


This is an official photo mark the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee in New Zealand, in which HM is wearing her New Zealand honours, her diamond fern brooch and two diamond fringes, one as a tiara and the other as a necklace.

Offline OctoberLily

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #288 on: March 05, 2012, 12:49:41 PM »
Wow!  Beautiful portrait!  I didn't know QEII had two fringes.  One came from QM didn't it?  And what about the other?

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #289 on: March 05, 2012, 03:00:29 PM »
The other one used to be worn by the Queen Mother. Both belonged to Queen Mary at one time.

CHRISinUSA

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #290 on: March 05, 2012, 04:24:24 PM »
Seems that there is confusion on various websites about those two (or more) fringe tiaras.  I find references to ones alternately called "The George III Fringe", "the Hanover Fringe", "Queen Alexandra's Kokoshnik Tiara" and the "Queen Mary Fringe Tiara".  I suspect that several of these tiaras are in fact one and the same.

Some websites say the George III was the one worn by the Queen on her wedding day, while others claim it was Queen Mary's fringe tiara.

Anybody have more definite facts on these?

Brassov

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #291 on: March 06, 2012, 02:49:50 AM »
I am confused about the fringe tiara. Of course its the "spiky' one, the one I am curious about is the one she is wearing in the photograph just below the 'Chandelier" earings post. My apologies. Thank You.

Brassov

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #292 on: March 06, 2012, 05:41:53 AM »
The Tiara I was asking about was the Nizam of Hyderabad tiara, which has since been broken up and used elsewhere.

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #293 on: March 06, 2012, 08:13:05 AM »
The Tiara I was asking about was the Nizam of Hyderabad tiara, which has since been broken up and used elsewhere.

The Nizam of Hyderabad's tiara wasn't a fringe tiara, but a Cartier diamond bandeau with an English rose and foliage design.  As you say, the tiara has been broken up, although three detatchable rose motifs - two at the sides, and the larger central one - have been retained by the Queen in their original settings and used as brooches.  All photographs of this tiara are somewhat old now because of the recycling of the other stones, but here are a couple:

 

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #294 on: March 06, 2012, 09:00:54 AM »
Seems that there is confusion on various websites about those two (or more) fringe tiaras.  I find references to ones alternately called "The George III Fringe", "the Hanover Fringe", "Queen Alexandra's Kokoshnik Tiara" and the "Queen Mary Fringe Tiara".  I suspect that several of these tiaras are in fact one and the same.

Some websites say the George III was the one worn by the Queen on her wedding day, while others claim it was Queen Mary's fringe tiara.

Anybody have more definite facts on these?

This is what I know, and I am open to corrections:

The Queen was presented with a diamond fringe necklace as a wedding gift from the Lord Mayor and Aldermen of the City of London, the Governor of the Bank of England, the Chairman of the Stock Exchange, Lloyds and the Baltic Exchange, and the Committee of the London Clearing Banks and it is likely that it is this one she is wearing in the New Zealand portrait, as it is one she wears quite frequently.  (Another diamond fringe necklace was left to the Queen Mother by Princess Victoria of Wales in 1935 and has presumably been inherited by the Queen, so it is possible that it is the one in the photo – however, this is less likely as she tends to go with jewels with particular associations either personal or public and there wouldn't be much with this necklace.  Indeed, it might not even be in the royal collection any more if the Queen Mother disposed of it or recycled it before her death). 
 
Queen Victoria left to the crown a diamond fringe necklace made in 1830 from brilliant cut stones that belonged to King George III (hence the name ‘the George III tiara’) and was worn as a tiara by Queen Victoria from 1839.  It has passed down from Queen Alexandra to Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, and now the Queen.  This was the tiara she wore at her wedding as ‘something borrowed’, and it is likely that this is the tiara she wears in the New Zealand photo.

Queen Alexandra’s fringe tiara is different in design from these three others (I am guessing the Princess Victoria necklace is/was similar to the other two 'spikey' ones), as it consists of solid bars, and in fact is usually called the Russian Kokoshnik Tiara.  It was a silver wedding present to Alexandra Princess of Wales, as she then was, from 365 peeresses of the United Kingdom, in 1888.  Queen Mary inherited it from Queen Alexandra, and the Queen inherited it from Queen Mary.  There are many, many pictures of this tiara in the forum and all over the internet but I include just one, for reference:


CHRISinUSA

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #295 on: March 06, 2012, 12:39:57 PM »
So if I do the math, the Queen has at least 3 - if not 4 - fringe tiara / necklaces?  Do we know if they all can be worn either as tiara or necklace?

1 - The George III (worn as a tiara on her wedding day)
2 - The Queen Alexandra Russian Kokoshnik Tiara (shown above)
3 - The QEII wedding gift / City of London fringe piece (worn as a necklace in the New Zealand portrait)
4 - And possibly the Princes Victoria of Wales fringe piece (if it wasn't disposed of by the QM)?

Given that, I'm surprised that one of them hasn't appeared on another royal lady - as a loaner or gift.  I mean, how many fringe tiara / necklaces does one actually need?  :~)

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #296 on: March 06, 2012, 01:23:26 PM »
I think there is another fringe owned by Queen Mary.

CHRISinUSA

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #297 on: March 06, 2012, 01:38:51 PM »
Not currently, as that lady is deceased. 

Sorry, just kidding. 

I think that's part of the confusion.  Now, don't yell at me for using a Wikipedia source for this particular example (because there are other websites making the same claim), but Wikipedia says that among the present Queen's tiaras is the "Queen Mary fringe" which it says was made for Queen Mary in 1919 and is not, as has sometimes been claimed, made with diamonds that had belonged to George III but re-uses diamonds taken from a necklace/tiara purchased by Queen Victoria from Collingwood & Co as a wedding present for Queen Mary in 1893.

The problem is - that same Wikipedia article says it is THIS tiara that QEII wore at her wedding, and NOT the George III tiara.  Other sources - including on this forum - say the Queen wore the George III tiara.

So - the confusion continues.  If Her Majesty would just be gracious enough to pop onto this forum, she could clear this up for us straight away.  :)

Offline OctoberLily

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #298 on: March 07, 2012, 12:51:49 AM »
No kidding, Chris....lol!  Now someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought QA's Kokoshnik wasn't actually considered a fringe tiara.  :-\  Also,  I had read the same thing about QM's fringe tiara being made from diamonds that she recycled from an older piece, but not from Wikipedia, although I can't remember where.  And while trying to find where I'd read that, I came across this montage:

http://fashiondealdiva.blogspot.com/2011/04/frugal-fiancee-crown-jewels.html

Look at QM's in comparison to the others.....to me it looks smaller, and I'm wondering if that's the one QE is wearing as a necklace in that lovely photo posted by CountessKate.

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #299 on: March 07, 2012, 09:01:45 AM »
The most authoritative discussion is probably on the Royal Jewels of the World Message Board (http://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/msg/1329569642.html) and frankly I have pretty much lost the plot on the various fringes - tiaras, necklaces, tiara/necklaces etc. etc., not helped by a variety of different sources giving different stories, and which Buckingham Palace itself does not always seem to be totally clear about.  But the RJotWMB has had a very good stab at all of this.