Author Topic: Windsor Jewels Pt 7  (Read 212555 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #405 on: August 08, 2012, 10:27:59 PM »
Well...If you don't think Diana wearing a Versace suit to Washington DC is not "dressing up", then it is true. Also people tend to forget that Diana wore quite a few of her own or family (Spencer) jewels during the early part of her marriage. Examples included the "Spencer family diamond tiara" and "Two diamond and pearl chokers" (whom she wore with great effect). Kate, simply looked too poor and casual in comparison. Not that she was shy about dressing up, as her dress bill paid by Prince Charles reveal. I read somewhere that the Middleton family actually bought some jewels for Kate as a kind of dowry, would be interested to see that when she wore them. Yes the era of showy jewels is gone, but they still play a role in the sense of continually in a family as shown by the Royal House of Denmark.

Offline CHRISinUSA

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 844
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #406 on: August 09, 2012, 07:30:18 AM »
You do point out one thing that I have always found perplexing  - that continental royals seem to have a different set of rules and practices than the British when it comes to formal attire.  For example, the Scandinavian royals seem to wear full royal garb (complete with tiaras, sashes and orders) for their royal weddings.  The British would never do that - even for the wedding of Charles and Diana it was day dress and hats, with only a broach and a string of pearls on show.  Also, the British practice the old tiara protocol  - that tiaras are limited to married ladies, with the first one usually appearing on a lady as a bride.  Yet the Swedish princesses have been wearing them since they were teenagers.   Has there always been this gulf in protocol between the continent and the isles?

Offline Martyn

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7022
  • Martyn's Chips
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #407 on: August 09, 2012, 07:56:28 AM »
The point that Chris made about the bulk of the Queen's collection being in all probability destined for Charles is a really interesting one.  The tax implications had never occurred to  me, but of course that makes perfect sense.

I think that the Queen does have a very good sense of the historic and sentimental importance of some of the pieces in her collection, and I'm thinking now mostly of the jewels that came direct to her from Queen Mary, either at the time of her marriage or on the death of Queen Mary.  Iconic pieces such as the Girls of Great Britain and Ireland tiara and numerous other jewels that have come down to her and have a familial connection must surely be intended to remain within the immediate family, with the idea that they will continue to be worn by consorts or future female monarchs?

The British royals do seem to have a different code for gala dress and jewels, compared to some of the other European royal families - is it differing protocols do we think?
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #408 on: August 09, 2012, 08:44:34 AM »
Not sure. I think the Danish Royal Family was clever to make a jewel pool which they they can lent or borrow if the need arise. I think that was because the bulk came through from the inheritance of Queen Lovisa (wife of King Frederick VIII). Indeed the continental royals wore much more jewelry than the British ones. I think they enjoy seeing their royals looking like one and proud of them, while there is a class system in Britain that is jealous of finery. The last one to use clothes and jewels to win popularity was Diana, and maybe the Queen wanted to limit Kate's expose as she did not want the young woman to overshadow her. I agree that was the Queen's intention to limit the jewels to only the ruling branch of the family. I think it makes sense now, as events seem to indicate that it is possible that the story that the queen asked "where are the jewels ?" the night Diana died might be true.

Offline CountessKate

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1085
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #409 on: August 09, 2012, 12:33:20 PM »
Quote
The last one to use clothes and jewels to win popularity was Diana, and maybe the Queen wanted to limit Kate's expose as she did not want the young woman to overshadow her.

That makes the Queen seem rather petty.  I don't think the royal family showed themselves to be especially sensitive to the strains Diana was under getting to grips with her new role (leaving aside the issue of the marriage itself) - in fairness, they seemed simply unprepared for it - but they now appear , with William playing a leading role in this, to be much more au fait with what is needed for the new royal and are very gently easing her into the job.  State events where the tiaras are cracked out look terrific for the viewers, but (speaking as one with diplomatic parents who did all that stuff) they are incredibly hard work, and plunging Kate into the thick of it from the word go would be very tough on her.  I'm sure like others who have posted before that the Cambridges will take their place at state events routinely eventually and Kate will turn up in tiara(s) and wear more jewels (I was going to say, pile on the jewellery, but that doesn't seem the style of any of the stylish modern royal women around currently) as appropriate. 

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6648
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #410 on: August 09, 2012, 03:28:42 PM »
I agree, Countess Kate. That rumour sounds like a Murdoch press, financed by Al Fayed.
 As for the Continental courts, well, historically, they follow the Hapsburg protocal, much relaxed for modern times. That is, if you got, flaunt it. It impressed your people and  does not scare the horses. And much of that routine was adopted by the Bourbons.
 BTW, Diana did not pay for the Versace gowns. He made nore in  free advertising than he would make even by a discount price. And, I wear Versace, D&G, Ralph Lauren, etc. .  Men's . Being in the antique/ estate business, these things come my way now and then. I would never pay the retail price for this stuff.
 Chris, I had forgotten about the "married women & tiaras" rule. As a coincidence, I was listening to a Radio 4 interview with one of  HM's Lord Leutinents yesterday. She was not told of any rules when she was appointed and had to pay for her own jewels and outfits. Some compenence for  small expesees such as travel and meals. The rest was up to her. She had to buy, clean and otherwise maintain her her own wardrobe. They mentioned on the programme, it takes an average of 10 thousand [pounds] to keep that job, with no salary. As no one instructed her, she wore the wore the wrong colour on her first day of duty and clashed with the Queen. She stuck to pastels after that.
 Not to out shine  her, she wore only simple jewels during the day and a minimum at that. After all, the people were there to see the Queen, not her. She wore her tiara only at evening events and when she was with her husband. or another male escort.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #411 on: August 09, 2012, 04:34:12 PM »
I think it was more a precaution than a petty thing on the part of the Queen. Remember when Diana wore a new upswept hair style with her Spencer tiara  at the opening of Parliament, she was told not to do that again to upstage the Queen. Kate has the same potential as Diana, but she played it safe. She only wore her hair differently on solo appearances. If a tiara was needed for a lady-in-waiting, then it would be more of a need for a royal duchess.

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6648
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #412 on: August 09, 2012, 05:18:24 PM »
Nonsense.  Diana was young, beautiful and an asset to the monarchy. The Queen was well aware of this. It was only natural that she had her hair in contempray style.. Remember, the QM wore bobs ans marcelles in her younger days..
 HM is  now very aware of "what sells"  and I do not believe there is/was any "precaution" involved.
 Also, tiaras are a dime a dozen [well, more than that]  in Europe. I see them in the jewelry shops in London frequently.  One does not need to be a "Royal Duchess" to wear those things.
 Kate is another young, beautiful woman, and in todays  styles, she is no Paris Hilton. Much more down to earth.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline CHRISinUSA

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 844
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #413 on: August 10, 2012, 07:32:25 AM »
Quite true Robert, you reminded me of a series of photos I saw not that long ago of an exhibition (probably at the palace) showing the Queen's wardrobe / outfits, and how she assembled her jewelry, early in her reign.  I remember being astonished by some of the outfits HM had worn in her youth - especially in the 1950s and 1960s.  At some point she landed upon her "look", the one which best suits both her role and shape, and has duly stuck with it ever since. 

The fashionistas among us here would know this better than I, but a lady always looks best when she doesn't try to chase the latest changing fashions, but rather finds the silhouette and color schemes which suits her body, and sticks to them.  There was a quote (probably several over the years), about choosing one's uniform for life.  Thinking back to all of the past women we remember as best dressed, you can immediately remember their outfits (Audrey Hepburn, Grace Kelly, Jackie O).  And how she wears jewelry fits right in with this "uniform".

Vanya Ivanova

  • Guest
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #414 on: August 10, 2012, 08:46:26 AM »
Tiara's are very old fashioned and only tend IMO to look good on young women as part of their wedding dress. Zara Phillips looked great in her mother's 'greek key' motif tiara on her wedding day for example. With formal wear on younger women they are a bit 'matronly' IMO.

From personal experience they aren't very comfortable either. We have a very simple 1930's 'headband' style one in our family, my sister wore it on her wedding day but I chose not to on mine, you have to fuss its still 'in place' all the time and wear your hair quite formally too, lots of tight hairpins etc. Fine on your wedding day but otherwise they're too much bother/and look a bit silly even for royals IMO.

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #415 on: August 10, 2012, 09:14:09 AM »
Understood. But tiaras are part of "the uniform"of being royal. It separated Grace Kelly from Marilyn Monroe. She was a real princess and got to wear one, while the other only wear rhinestones. I have to say that I am more of a traditionalist as far as royal dress and jewels are concerned. One must also remember the very idea of a monarchy is a traditional. Kate ia a royal duchess and should dress like one. She dress nicely and fashionably but not royally. Angelina Jolie or Carla Bruni could fit right into her clothes. Sorry Robert, royal tiaras are not a dime a dozen, only the selected few gets to wear them. She has the title and should start looking like one.

Offline Martyn

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7022
  • Martyn's Chips
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #416 on: August 10, 2012, 09:54:05 AM »
What nonsense.  Kate looks lovely whenever she appears.  Hardly anyone has been able to fault her clothes up to this point, and the fact that some of them are high street and not couture has gone down very well in the UK where times are hard.  She is such an attractive woman, she really does not need clothes that are overly flashy, and by the same token does not need flashy jewellery while she has youth and beauty on her side.

I do take the point that tiaras are part of the royal armoury, if you like.  And having been to BP to see the latest exhibition, it's easy to see how they work.  Some of them are simply masterpieces and naturally would draw the eye to the face of the wearer.  Having a glittering mass of jewels atop one's head is a surefire way to make a statement about status
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #417 on: August 10, 2012, 11:29:01 AM »
Lets agree that tiaras and jewels are part of the tools, armory of the trade. I hope Kate gets her full suit soon.

No I didn't say that Kate looks bad. But she had yet develop the "royal way of dressing", so successfully done by the Queen, The Queen Mother, Princess Marina and Queen Mary. A style royal without following fashion. In fact they influence it rather than following it. Kate is not 19 like Diana and a fully mature woman. She should have her own style. It disturbs me to see her described as a fashion plate. not as a leader but a follower of fashion. As a member of the Royal Family, a little dignity and distance is required even though we all love the "common touch" as well. 

Offline Stefan22

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #418 on: August 10, 2012, 02:58:09 PM »
Well...But even the Countess of Wessex did appear in a tiara. She was much down the pecking order than The Duchess of Cambridge. It would be very interesting to see when inevitably that they will have to appear formally in some function that merits one. By that time it would be painfully clear the absence of such a "tool of the trade". I am very "old school" in my ideas about royalty. Queen Mary when Duchess of York wore nice jewels (she was in the same position as Kate is today, the wife of the son of the heir to the throne).

But alo the Duchess of Cornwall doesn't wear a tiara on official Visits abroad like in Spring this year to the scandinavian Countries. There where Gala dinners at this Visit in Denmark and Norway but both black tie. And the danish Royals usually wear often tiaras also for black tie Events.
Stefan

Offline Stefan22

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: Windsor Jewels Pt 7
« Reply #419 on: August 10, 2012, 03:06:22 PM »
Not sure. I think the Danish Royal Family was clever to make a jewel pool which they they can lent or borrow if the need arise. I think that was because the bulk came through from the inheritance of Queen Lovisa (wife of King Frederick VIII). Indeed the continental royals wore much more jewelry than the British ones. I think they enjoy seeing their royals looking like one and proud of them, while there is a class system in Britain that is jealous of finery. The last one to use clothes and jewels to win popularity was Diana, and maybe the Queen wanted to limit Kate's expose as she did not want the young woman to overshadow her. I agree that was the Queen's intention to limit the jewels to only the ruling branch of the family. I think it makes sense now, as events seem to indicate that it is possible that the story that the queen asked "where are the jewels ?" the night Diana died might be true.

In Denmark there are only a few jewels in a fouindation and these can only be worn by the Queen. The same for the Crown jewelswho are on dislpay at Roseborg Castle. All other jewels are prvate owned.
For example from Queen Ingrid's jewels she left her ruby Parure to Crown Prince Frederk, a plamette heartshaped tiara and a turqiose tiara to Queen Margrethe II., a pearl and star tiara to Princess Benedikte and the Cartier Khedive tiara (worn by her daughters and graqnddaughters on their Wedding days= to Queen Anne-Marie.
Stefan