Prince John/Johnnie (son of George V and Queen Mary)

[Cambria_Coheed]

Epilepsy,
is a common chronic neurological disorder that is characterized by recurrent unprovoked seizures. These seizures are transient signs and/or symptoms due to abnormal, excessive or synchronous neuronal activity in the brain. About 50 million people worldwide have epilepsy at any one time. Epilepsy is usually controlled, but not cured, with medication, although surgery may be considered in difficult cases. Not all epilepsy syndromes are lifelong – some forms are confined to particular stages of childhood. Epilepsy should not be understood as a single disorder, but rather as a group of syndromes with vastly divergent symptoms but all involving episodic abnormal electrical activity in the brain.

usually death from seizures is rare....but it also probably depends on what part of the brain the seizures had occured in.  not to mention at the time there were no medications used to control epilepsy.

In the movie i noted that Johnny was slow to respond and kind of 'in his own world' was this how the real John was in real life? cause that could also give a hint as to what sort of seizures and what part of the brain he was having them.  The only reason im curious is cause i have Epilepsy and my seizures affect my speech and ability to react quickly at times.


heres a picture of Alexandrine and her sister and father

[eejm]

In the movie i noted that Johnny was slow to respond and kind of 'in his own world' was this how the real John was in real life? cause that could also give a hint as to what sort of seizures and what part of the brain he was having them.  The only reason im curious is cause i have Epilepsy and my seizures affect my speech and ability to react quickly at times.

I don't know about John's epilepsy and how it affected his speech or reaction, but as previously mentioned, he may have had Asperger's Syndrome or something on the autism spectrum.  This could explain why some of his behavior or things he said seemed unusual.  I don't know if there is a link between epilepsy and Asperger's.

I'll make a new topic on Princess Alexandrine in the Hohenzollern thread.  I'd like to hear more about her.

[Cambria_Coheed]

there is....i also have Aspergers...i read that kids with Autism or Autistic spectrum disorders are more likely to have a seizure disorder...i had to do a lot of research after i found out about myself.

[Adagietto]

Thanks for posting that picture of Alexandrine with her father, it's nice and I hadn't seen it before.

[grandduchessella]

Some info about his funeral:

his coffin was made from oak grown on the Sandringham estate and a plain brass plate was engraved "HRH Prince John Charles Francis, born July 12 1905; died January 18 1919"; the coffin had been brought overnight from Wood Farm and rested in the chancel

members of the royal family present were: George V, Queen Mary, Queen Alexandra, Princess Victoria, Princess Mary, Prince Henry & Prince George (both in uniform), Queen Maud and Prince Olav.

the mourners occupied their normal seatas in the chancel and between them rested the coffin, with the family and non-family wreaths grouped around

Canon Dalton & Rev AH Bowman conducted the service adn the choir sang 2 of the Prince's favorite hymns (New every morning is the Love and Now the day is Over) and at the close, the hymn Peace, Perfect Peace which had been personally chosen by King George

at the conclusion of the graveside service, the King, Queen and Queen Alexandra all dropped bunches of flowers on the coffin; the grave was lined with moss, evergreens and flowers

GV & QM sent a wreath in the shape of a cross of flowers and attached the handwritten card 'For our darling little Johnnie, from his sorrowing parents'. Queen Alexandra sent a cross of orchids, lilies and mums 'In remembrance of my darling little Johnnie, Grannie's precious grandson, whose memory will  never fade. May he rest in peace for ever with the Lord, though we shall ever miss him sorely here on earth. From poor old Grannie, Alexandra.' There was also a wreath from his siblings. Louise, Maud, Toria and Olav sent a wreath for 'our darling little Johnnie'. Princess Alice of Athlone wrote 'For darling Johnnie from his loving Aunt and Godmother, Alice'. The staffs at York Cottage, the household of Queen Alexandra, the children of Wolverton and Sandringham and the Maharaja of Gwalior also sent wreaths.

Besides family, those present included Rev ACH Rice (rector of Wolverton), Lala Bill, some of the principal tenants of the Sandringham estate, Miss Carso ( a former governess), Mr May (personal attendant), the servants from Wood Farm, Mrs Grant (wife of the rector at Sandringham), Mr Beck (agent for Sandringham), several servants of the royal Households and Sir Alan Manby who attended the Prince.

[Cambria_Coheed]

here are two more i found with Johnny in them

[grandduchessella]

One of his last major appearances--and at a very public occasion--was when he acted as page, along with his cousin Olav, at the wedding of the Duchess of Fife & Prince Arthur of Connaught.

[Adagietto]

There was an interesting programme about Prince John on British television last night. It seems that his life was by no means as isolated as it has often been presented, Queen Mary allowed (or more precisely, chose out) children of people who were working on the Sandringham estate to play with him; one of them is still alive and was talking about him. From what she could remember, the old story about his parents only seeing him once or twice a year is simply a myth, they were down not infrequently and she was told to keep out of the way at those times.

Oh dear, what unattractive people seem to be drawn to write about royal affairs. Most of the people who were invited to comment here really irritated me, apart from the excellent Charlotte Zeepvat.

One person said that he thought that Queen Mary was a little mad; exactly my thought.

[Grace]

There was an interesting programme about Prince John on British television last night. It seems that his life was by no means as isolated as it has often been presented, Queen Mary allowed (or more precisely, chose out) children of people who were working on the Sandringham estate to play with him; one of them is still alive and was talking about him. From what she could remember, the old story about his parents only seeing him once or twice a year is simply a myth, they were down not infrequently and she was told to keep out of the way at those times.

Oh dear, what unattractive people seem to be drawn to write about royal affairs. Most of the people who were invited to comment here really irritated me, apart from the excellent Charlotte Zeepvat.

One person said that he thought that Queen Mary was a little mad; exactly my thought.

I couldn't think of anyone who could fall into the category of "mad" less than Queen Mary.  Why on earth would anyone say that about her?

[Adagietto]

Only joking; I do think she was a little crazy, like some of my crazier relations.

[Erika]

Prince John actually lived with his family until he was twelve years old and his illness became more serious. He was settled at Wood Farm on the Sandringham Estate were he was well taken care of by his devoted nanny Lalla. At Wood Farm he was happy. He would go for walks, tend his garden and play with his indoor train. It is not true that he lived alone with his stuff. He had a companion, a girl the same age as him who suffered from asthma. They were together every day and when John had a seizure Winifred (the girl) would sit next to him and hold his hand.

It is sometimes described that Queen Mary only saw her son a couple of times a year and when she did she felt ill at ease. In reality, she saw her son frequently and they were very close. Winifred remember the Queen as a loving and interested parent who spent a lot of time with her son. The night John died both she and her husband went directly to the Farm and in her diary the Queen wrote; "Miss the dear child very much indeed." and "Tuesday, January 21st 1919. Canon Dalton & Dr Brownhill conducted the service, which was awfully sad and touching. Many of our own people and the villagers were present. We thanked all Johnnie's servants, who have been so good and faithful to him."

[Charlieee]

I watched it too and I thought it was really interesting. I have heard about Prince John through the TV drama 'The Lost Prince', which I thought was really good. It was nice being able to see pictures of the real Prince John, but I was shocked how his name has been written out of the history books until recently. Does anyone know why this is (?), because the programme didn't seem to suggest much other than the Royal family didn't (and still doesn't) like to tarnish their image and so hides the truth on matters like that. I can imagine that was quite a biased opinion though.
I am in no doubt that the King and Queen loved their son dearly, but it was incredibly sad to hear of the sigma attached to epilepsy and learning disabilities at that time (especially when they showed the footage of the man, naked, having an epileptic fit on camera )

One thing I thought about in that programme was the similarities between Prince John and Tsarevich Alexei. They both had medical problems which had yet to be researched thoroughly and there wasn't a known 'cure' (in addition to the fact that people attached these problems to supernatural phenomina). Their disabilities were also hidden from public view. They both died at the age of 13 - only a year apart, and in their most famous photographs they appear to be known as 'the little boys in the sailor suits'.

[Adagietto]

'The Lost Prince' was an excellent and moving drama, not at all crude like some of the newspaper coverage of this issue, but it does seem to have got the story slightly wrong, and has been largely responsible for the false impressions that many people have gained. I am not sure what you mean about Prince John's name being written out of history. During his lifetime pictures of him were often released (postcards of him are frequently sold on ebay, so they must have been common) and he even appeared occasionally in public during his younger years. The fact is that most younger members of the royal family are soon forgotten by most people (how many people now remember any but the two elder brothers?), and this would happen even sooner with someone like Prince John who died young after having lived an almost entirely private life. The essential point is, I think, that Prince John was not treated without love or sympathy by the royal family during his lifetime, as has been widely believed. It is understandable that they should not have revealed that he suffered froim epilepsy until he died. The only person who comes really badly out of this is the future Edward VIII, his reactions merely confirm his superficial and selfish character (he resented having to give up his parties because of the death of someone who had been 'little better than an animal'!)

The film of the epileptic seizure was undignified and distressing, I don't think they ought to have shown it. It would have been made to demonstrate the nature of the symptoms to medical students, it is similar in character to the plates of mental patients in medical books at the time. I am not sure that one should generalize too much about attitudes at the time, since many people were quite enlightened about these matters. The Crown Prince and Princess of Germany, for instance, had a daughter who was born with Downs syndrome, and she was treated as a ordinary and much loved member of the family, and her condition was not concealed from the public.

[markjhnstn]

A very interesting programme.

I was quite staggered by EdwardVIII's callous attitude towards the death of his brother.

I'm sure I have read somewhere (maybe on here) that he was as equally callous about the fate of the Tsar and his family.

[Romanov_fan]

I think part of the myth of Queen Mary not being maternal towards Prince John, or the myth that he really wasn't regarded as one of the family, but instead locked away and isolated at Wood Farm, comes from the whole idea of the Windsors not being a very emotional family, but rather one concerned with duty (esp before the time of Diana). I think in regards to the Prince John myths mentioned above in my post, the Windsors became victims of their sometimes cold emotionless public image. Just my thoughts.