Author Topic: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide  (Read 84234 times)

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Van Heyden

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2008, 01:41:19 PM »
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the photo and the following ones belong to Graziella M.
currently aged 63, granddaughter of Felix Sr and Zinaida Gregoriev.

ashdean

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2008, 04:01:57 PM »
Looks very good for saying that his son and the British ambassadors daughter say that by 1921 he was paralysed by a stroke..

Van Heyden

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2008, 02:32:04 AM »
Hehe, good point,

however, it means that either

- the picture was taken close to 1921. Actually I have doubts since Tatiana born 1920 in Alupka, Crimea appears around 3 or 4?
- Our good man Felix Sr recovered from his stroke. such things happen. my grand mother being paralyzed for 5 months is a living proof of it.
- More humoristically, he did not have such a stroke, he rather wanted to part from his former relationships and focus on someone else.

the dates on his letters to Olivier and Tatiana will show if he was such a crippled man :-).

Van Heyden

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2008, 02:36:51 AM »
Zenaide Gregoriev 1885-1965, mistress of Felix Sr with Olivier ( Olifir) born 1916 in tsarskoe selo, photo tken in Russia.
 

Van Heyden

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2008, 02:39:40 AM »
Zinadia Gregorie, Olivier and Tatiana ( born 1920). Photo taken in Rome.


Van Heyden

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2008, 02:41:28 AM »
Olivier and Tatiana Gregoriev, photo taken in Rome


Van Heyden

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2008, 02:43:03 AM »
Olivier and Tatiana, Rome


Van Heyden

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2008, 02:48:17 AM »
I will post more later.

maybe you ve come across this one over the net. Supposed to be tomb of Felix sr in Rome

« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 03:06:38 AM by Van Heyden »

ashdean

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2008, 04:13:53 AM »
Hehe, good point,

however, it means that either

- the picture was taken close to 1921. Actually I have doubts since Tatiana born 1920 in Alupka, Crimea appears around 3 or 4?
- Our good man Felix Sr recovered from his stroke. such things happen. my grand mother being paralyzed for 5 months is a living proof of it.
- More humoristically, he did not have such a stroke, he rather wanted to part from his former relationships and focus on someone else.

the dates on his letters to Olivier and Tatiana will show if he was such a crippled man :-).
I am glas to hear yr grandmother recovered from her stroke...There of course various degrees of "strokes" and they can be treated...as with every form of illness the 80 odd years scince Prince Felix's seizure and death have seen vast advances..I think yr second option is out...his son would have commented on the fact..have you ever read En Exil?

Van Heyden

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2008, 05:26:34 AM »
Thank you ! Actually my grand mother recovered without so much treatment. New neural patterns are initialized by the brain a few hours after the stroke, and they improve with time. Recovery can be accelerated by modern science but the brain is the main healer here. So it could have been be the same for our Felix Sr. However, he could have been installed, seated by medics and then taken back to his armchair...

I did read En Exil and Avant L'Exil etc...But  I don t think Felix Jr would have commented on this. Possibly for two main reasons :

Feelings: I assume that the love of Felix Jr for his mother was so powerful that he could not accept the presence of a second family taking away attention from his father to his mother... We can feel however a lot of resentment from Felix Jr regarding his father in his own lines.

Personal shame : I was told during my first conversation with Graziella to my great surprise that "HE ended up owing THEM". I had always thought he would have  provided (or been committed to) provide) monies to them. We have seen earlier the very short greetings sent by Felix Jr to them and small gifts given. Did he ever commented on that?
We know that when Bébé turned 15, Felix Jr and Irina were already almost broke ( the high heel shoes incident) or that their cash reserve was super tight. Or was it "bravado on paper" from him? I don t know. Were it bravado, then we should not take everything for granted...

Furthermore. all this would have been reinforced if as the documents provided by Alexandre64 state, Felix Sr had arranged financial commitment for his illegitimate family to be protected, which Felix would have had to respect in order to keep his own resources. That would have been bitter and difficult to swallow.

Okay everything remains to be proved by FACTS, not documents. By the way she told me Xenia Sfiri and her have talked over the phone and they will meet soon in Paris. They could compare DNA. it does not cost so much anymore. Unless we hear that Felix as I read somewhere on this forum , is an adopted child (?)... Then we re back to square one.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 05:29:48 AM by Van Heyden »

Van Heyden

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2008, 06:19:51 AM »
it s difficult to be a paralytic and to be able to write

"My dear Tatiana, here is a photograph so that you do not forget your dear father. And I hope that we will meet again very soon, once recovered from my fatigue, thanks to the climate of the country, on June 11, 1923, Papa. "

The same letter to Olivier: "My small Olivier, here is a photograph so that you do not forget your dear father. And I hope that we will meet again very soon, once recovered from my fatigue, thanks to the climate of the country, on June 11, 1923, Papa. "


However it seems that he was already weakened in june, 1923.

So, maybe a minor stroke in 1921 then a major one in 1924 as mentioned by the document? I ll ask the descendant. Her mother would know.

Offline ashanti01

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2008, 12:10:22 PM »
This is such an hot topic, at least for me it is. I thank you Van Heyden for the information and photos you have provided. I look forward to reading more.

Lemur

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2008, 08:51:27 PM »
By the way she told me Xenia Sfiri and her have talked over the phone and they will meet soon in Paris. They could compare DNA. it does not cost so much anymore.

Test all they want, it will show nothing. There is really no accurate way to connect them through DNA considering the relationships. It's  too indirect to utilize 'paternity testing' nuclear DNA tests, and since he was a male, there's no way to obtain the crucial mtDNA via a direct female line. Had it been a direct male line, it would be possible to test the "Y" chromosome, but with that, mtDNA and nuclear testing all being impossible under the circumstances, DNA tests will never give them any proof of sharing a common ancestor.


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Unless we hear that Felix as I read somewhere on this forum , is an adopted child (?)... Then we re back to square one.


Felix was not adopted. His birth and his resemblance to his mother are well documented.

Van Heyden

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2008, 10:21:14 PM »
about dna =: sorry to hear that. I wish there was a way other than personal memories and documents. Felix Sr's daughter tatiana is 88, and losing memory. We need to secure as much as possible before it's too late.

about Felix being an adopted child: if anyway dna match cannot be checked, then it doesn't matter. Personally i have no opinion on this issue.

I have more information tonight. I will translate from French a personal communication with  Graziella.

"if my memory is right, my grandmother [Zinaida Gregoriev] emigrated to Italy to follow my grandfather on his request. She lived next street [in Rome] . At his death, his son Felix was committed to take  care his half brother and [half] sister,  which he did not do for a long time by the way since in the mean time he went to Paris and other cities such as Calvi where he purchased an estate which he resold at loss as all the rest.  My grandmother went to live in Venice but Olivier fell ill and Felix suggested her to come and live in Paris,  which she did.   She lived in Saint germain en laye but Felix one day told  her that he could not take financial care of his half brother, and as he [Olivier] was sick, my grandmother went to live in Nice.  Since that date, she did not get any contact from [or with]
Felix, and this for a good reason , he had spent all his parents's fortune and had been swindled on every side.   

My grandmother has always managed by herself, she lived in Italy with the jewels offered by  Félix Y.S-E  and then  my uncle and my mother when they grew up, started to have a working life.   
I can't tell if my grandfather had one or two strokes All i know is that he never refused a good meal [c'était un bon vivant qui ne crachait pas sur la bonne chair] he enjoyed  Champagne annd spent all his time in the officers'mess   in Rome.
My grandmother is buried in the russian cemetery of Caucade in Nice, .as well as the brother of Felix Y S-E

For precise dates i would have to ask from my mother. As for my first name, i think my mother  was influenced by her days in Italy...."

There's more available but iit will relate to another "chapter".

So i think Felix did not end borrowing from Zinaida G, but could not fulfill his obligations demanded by  his father. In that sense, Felix owed them. Anyway i will check again. Iin any case this part of the family seems to hold Felix Jr in low esteem.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 10:30:46 PM by Van Heyden »

Lemur

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Re: Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide
« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2008, 11:56:35 AM »
about dna =: sorry to hear that. I wish there was a way other than personal memories and documents. Felix Sr's daughter tatiana is 88, and losing memory. We need to secure as much as possible before it's too late.

I have no preference or strong view on whether those are Felix Sr's children other than in my opinion "Olivier" looks like a blond version of Nicholas, who died in the duel 100 years ago.

Quote
about Felix being an adopted child: if anyway dna match cannot be checked, then it doesn't matter. Personally i have no opinion on this issue.

DNA match could easily be done on Felix, if his tomb were opened. His mother is in there with him for testing.

If Felix Sr. were to be exhumed, a paternity test could be done with the living daughter, so they had better hurry while she's still alive. This is different than with the relative and Xenia Sfris, since that relationship would bring no match. I do not know if anyone would be willing to exhume the bodies for testing, I am only stating what is and is not possible through DNA testing.

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I have more information tonight. I will translate from French a personal communication with  Graziella.

Thank you, I look forward to it.