Mistress of Felix, husband of Zenaide

[Van Heyden]

Sorry for the misunderstanding: i already gave the translation. That s the last paragraph about Graziella own memory. I expect more tonight or tomorrow. I asked a series of very precise questions regarding

- the exact commitment(s) requested by Felix Sr.,
- the date when Felix Jr announced he was giving up sustaining the illegitimate branch,
- if the two Zenaidas talked to each other, in full awareness...
- did Felix Jr leave Rome when Zinaida Gregoriev arrived or was it the opposite,
- Why the lovers are not buried next to each other? I thought so and I discovered to be wrong.
- what is the exact meaning of "he ended up owing them"? ( she added that he "lost it all " or "he got busted" - how to translate "Il a mangé la grenouille"? Litterally "he s eaten the frog". Meaning : he spent everything he had but understates more precisely that he had a lot before .
- Of which SumarokovElston estate ( not Yusupov, at the beginning we thought it was a Yusupov estate but no) the grand parents were the managers ("regisseurs").

I follow you on what is possible / impossible on dna match. heredity is a science.

[Van Heyden]

Good evening

So, more information according to living descendant of Felix Sr and Zenaide Gregoriev :

Felix Sr was not looking for the kind of "celeb" life that his wife Zenaide Yusupov was into. Balls, parties, invitations and so on ... not for him. As a military man, he wanted a more quiet life and a more cosy home, with a wife to take care of him tenderly. This he found in his mistress, Zenaide G.

Quite amazingly, he made everyone including his wife aware of his relationship and was litterally living open bigamy. He saw his two children every day, wanted them to come to his place in Russia or in Italy.

When he was about to leave (his life), he asked his son Felix Jr to look after the financial needs of his second family. Felix Jr accepted and Felix Sr gave him his title Prince Yusupov, Count Sumarokov Elston. The two facts don t seem to be linked. THe first one was a moral commitment, the second was a deed done in written.

Felix Jr fulfilled his duties for about two years after the death of Felix Sr. The receipts of money transfers from him available. Then after he stopped and totally forgot about it. Zenaida sold one by one the jewels in order to sustain herself and her two children.

Worse, he did borrow money from Zinaida and never paid it back to her. Zenaida tore the IOU for him in the end.

I have now received letters from Felix Sr to Zinaida and from Felix Jr to Zinaida that i will translate. Felix Sr's handwriting is really difficult to decipher but Felix Jr's is much easier. I think I ll start with this one. I will scan them and post them here.

A big thank you to the descendant for this long conversation and all the documents. A lot of work for me ahead.

Cheers

FVH

[ashdean]

When he was about to leave (his life), he asked his son Felix Jr to look after the financial needs of his second family. Felix Jr accepted and Felix Sr gave him his title Prince Yusupov, Count Sumarokov Elston. The two facts don t seem to be linked. THe first one was a moral commitment, the second was a deed done in written.

With respect..even after taking into account the natural mistakes in translation...I must point out...Felix Snr did not give Felix jr anykind of titles in 1926 by deed. Felix as his LEGITIMATE son was Count Soumarokov-Elston from his birth and Prince Youssoupoff afterward a title which was verified in 1914 on his marriage to Irina by the Tsar.Felix  Jr did not need a written deed from his father.

[Valmont]

In my own very personal opinion,  I find  very hard to believe this story and I am not saying this story is not true, but I find hard to believe that nobody, not even Felix or anybody else wrote anything about Felix Sr and his “other” family. And it is not like people did not write anything about The Yussupov family. I have read good & bad stories about Felix Jr, but no one seems to mention anything about his Half brothers & half sisters.. The Yussupov  were not exactly low profile, especially Felix & Irina, and people wrote stories of them of the times when they were loaded  with money, like their travels, their parties and Zenaida’s Jewell's and of the times they were penniless, like Irina doing their laundry on the bath tub for they could not afford a maid or Felix Jr. making a big scene at an auction house (It was Christie's, I believe) the time the family's valuables were being auctioned by  Soviet Russian Government and I believe the last ones were written with a little of sarcasm for Felix Jr. was not the most  popular aristocrat among the Russian émigré community. He was very well known and respected, but not very well liked…. And yet, no one even had a comment (good or bad) about their immediate “half” family, although they lived very close to each other and according to the sources of some of the participants in this thread, they were in touch with each other, at least for a while……. I find this Intriguing indeed…

[Van Heyden]

When he was about to leave (his life), he asked his son Felix Jr to look after the financial needs of his second family. Felix Jr accepted and Felix Sr gave him his title Prince Yusupov, Count Sumarokov Elston. The two facts don t seem to be linked. THe first one was a moral commitment, the second was a deed done in written.

With respect..even after taking into account the natural mistakes in translation...I must point out...Felix Snr did not give Felix jr anykind of titles in 1926 by deed. Felix as his LEGITIMATE son was Count Soumarokov-Elston from his birth and Prince Youssoupoff afterward a title which was verified in 1914 on his marriage to Irina by the Tsar.Felix  Jr did not need a written deed from his father.

As i wrote, the two facts aren't linked in the opinion of the descendant, so i agree there's no reason whatsoever to suppose the existence of a deed in 1926. However the descendant mentioned a deed by Felix Sr to Felix Jr, at some point in Felix Sr's life. If true -this remains to be proved- why not 1914. I will ask her more precise information and evidence of that.

[Van Heyden]

In my own very personal opinion,  I find  very hard to believe this story and I am not saying this story is not true, but I find hard to believe that nobody, not even Felix or anybody else wrote anything about Felix Sr and his “other” family. And it is not like people did not write anything about The Yussupov family. I have read good & bad stories about Felix Jr, but no one seems to mention anything about his Half brothers & half sisters.. The Yussupov  were not exactly low profile, especially Felix & Irina, and people wrote stories of them of the times when they were loaded  with money, like their travels, their parties and Zenaida’s Jewell's and of the times they were penniless, like Irina doing their laundry on the bath tub for they could not afford a maid or Felix Jr. making a big scene at an auction house (It was Christie's, I believe) the time the family's valuables were being auctioned by  Soviet Russian Government and I believe the last ones were written with a little of sarcasm for Felix Jr. was not the most  popular aristocrat among the Russian émigré community. He was very well known and respected, but not very well liked…. And yet, no one even had a comment (good or bad) about their immediate “half” family, although they lived very close to each other and according to the sources of some of the participants in this thread, they were in touch with each other, at least for a while……. I find this Intriguing indeed…

I agree with you. And in the first place, the firstname of his mistress as well as the one of their first child (1910-1912) are most intriguing, if not slightly insane. But perhaps do i see this with my 21st century eyes?
if Zinaida Gregoriev was made ''lady in waiting" ( is this the correct translation for dame de compagnie?) to Felix Sr's mother, no one external to the family would have seen her presence infamous unless the gossips spread. What happened when she  ( Felix sr's mother) died in 1901 then remains to be explained in my opinion as there was no more justification to maintain the mistress nearby. . Also the renewed fatherhood in 1910, 1916 and 1920.

Yes they were in touch. I m currently translating a letter from Felix Jr to Zinaida Gregoriev dated 1949. Of course this could be a forgery or concern another Zinaida, but why then, since there's not a single claim from this branch? Just a fair dose of sarcasm, that's again true.  I think this can be understandable, given the course of events.

[Van Heyden]

Evening,

here is a deed done by Prince Yusupov to his son Olivier Elston ( there is a letter where Count Sumarokov-Elston allows his son to bear his name).

It is done on Koreiz letterhead and says :

25 March / 7 April

In case of my death, I leave the estate Kermenchik, in property to my son Olivier Elston.

The income of the estate until his adulthood will be given to his mother.

Prince Yusupov



More letters to come.

[Van Heyden]

Morning,

Here is a translation of a letter sent by Felix Jr to Zinaida Gregoriev. As my command of russian is far from good, there could be mistakes. Sometimes I could not decipher the handwriting.

"Biarritz, July 2nd, 1949

Dear Zina,

I ve been in [unreadable , maybe "queues"], and having returned home, I found both your letters.

I m happy that your daughter got married and built her own life. I send her my blessings and a little icon [?]. I wish her lot of happiness.

It is sad that your son is always sick and cannot work. For us, life is not happy either. There is enough money

only for food.

We live at acquaintances[' place] in the countryside close to Biarritz. Nothing is left anymore, everything is sold since already a long time, and the remaining that was

was taken in wartimes by the Germans.

[unreadable, maybe Pauline, at least a woman's name] died last year, I saw her a few days before her death.

I wish you all the best.

Prince Yusupov"

[IrinaAlexandrovna]

Excuse me guys... but probably i'm stupid...but i didn't understand who had a mistress?Felix Yussupov who married Irina Alexandrovna or his father.... or who?

[Van Heyden]

No problem.

Felix Sumarokov-Elston, Prince Yusupov ( father of Felix Yusupov) had a mistress, and three children from her.

You may be confused because Felix Yusupov knew the mistress of his father well. As this letter shows.

Cheers

Van heyden

[IrinaAlexandrovna]

Ahaaaa Thank you very much... now i understand...

Regards

IrinaAlexandrovna

[Van Heyden]

Now you understand.

Felix senior had openly and literally two families, that knew each other. The legitimate ( Youssoupov / Sumarokov-Elston) and the illegitimate (Soumarokov-Elston / Gregoriev)

And Felix Junior was supposed to look after (financially speaking) his father s mistress and children after. Which he did not because he had spent everything within 15 years or because he he did not want to. Difficult to tell. All we know is that Felix Jr stopped sending money one or two years after his father's death.

Then Felix Jr borrowed money from his father s mistress.

What is "funny" is that Felix Jr never mentioned it in his memoirs.
What is less funny is what could have gone through the mind of Princess Zinaida ( the official spouse of Felix Sr) to have this life.

[IrinaAlexandrovna]

I see.... But i have one other question... If Felix's father had a mistress and Felix knew it and even do this for her.... Does Felix had a mistress too? Or He was faithful to Irina?

[Van Heyden]

Was Felix Jr faithful to Irina? That s a hard question.

Felix Jr was most probably bisexual, and he had relationships with men. There are testimonies that even at old age he had affairs with men. I don t know what worth are these testimonies. Is it being unfaithful to one's wife? In my humble opinion, most certainly yes.

THere are no hints or testimonies ( as far as I know) that he had affairs with other women. He clearly wrote in his memoirs that in general he was not attracted by women as a long term partner because he thinks they complex and difficult to live with. He wrote that Irina was different because she had been used to live among her many brothers. THis being said, he had a few short term affairs with women in his youth. Afterward, no sign.

So I would say: no sign of mistress, but unfaithful yes.

[IrinaAlexandrovna]

Yes i knew he was bisexual.... bu ti thought everything was gone when he married her... and he had child from her....But in other way i didn't know that he had affairs with other women and men... lol.... very very new... And so he was unfaithful... And did Irina know that?How did she accept it if she knew?And did she cheat with other men like him?