Author Topic: why did they kill the children?  (Read 62261 times)

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Alixz

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #90 on: January 22, 2008, 09:29:29 PM »
puppylove - please accept my apologies.  I do like to get to the route of most mysteries.

It is just that we have numerous pages on this subject of "why did they kill the children?"  It may just have come down to removing any witnesses to the murders of their parents and Alexei.

As for the supposed child of FS and the mystery of what happened to it, most posters could care less and there won't be a long line of pages that ask the same question over and over again.

Yurovsky may well have "been just following orders".  It wasn't until after the second war that we began to hold individuals responsible for horrendous acts even though the actual order was given by someone else.

Belochka often does a "Moot Court" on certain subjects, maybe this is one we should investigate.

If Yurovsky had been tried at Nuremberg, or in a trial with a judicial code like that of Nuremberg in effect, would he have been found guilty of premeditated murder, or manslaughter or not guilty at all because his actions took place during war time and revolution?




Offline Puppylove

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #91 on: January 22, 2008, 10:48:54 PM »
Alixz, no apology necessary! I just happened to have read your two posts one after the other and they were so opposite in tone, that's all. And you did acknowledge in this thread you were "crabby" so there you have it!

I absolutely love the idea of a Nuremberg or Hague-style war crimes trial of Yurovsky and others (I am personally more familiar with the Nuremberg process; in fact I'm just now re-reading Goldensohn's The Nuremberg Interviews). Barring a trial, I'm certainly up for a good discussion! I'm most curious to know if Yurovsky would have faced such a tribunal with the bluster of a Goering, the withering of a Ribbentrop, or the stunningly emotionless detachment of a Rudolf Hoess. You have definitely given me food for thought....

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Offline mr_harrison75

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #92 on: January 23, 2008, 07:19:56 PM »
It was political expediency.

After all, many people got to the gulags and Siberia simply because they didn't think like the government wanted them to think, so imagine when you are the living symbols of everything the Russian Communists were fighting against!

The poor children had no chance, especially Aleksei.  :(

Offline dmitri

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #93 on: January 23, 2008, 10:10:58 PM »
The children were heirs and spares to a regime that the Bolsheviks did not want revived and as such were better dead than alive as dead there could be no hope of using them as a rallying point against the Soviet regime. 

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #94 on: January 24, 2008, 08:14:58 AM »
The children were heirs and spares to a regime that the Bolsheviks did not want revived and as such were better dead than alive as dead there could be no hope of using them as a rallying point against the Soviet regime. 

There was only one heir and no "spares", the "spares" being  Nicholas' cousin (after Mikhail was killed). The girls were not eligible for the Russian throne, i.e. they were politically irrelevant as such.

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #95 on: January 24, 2008, 10:25:49 AM »
This is not really a complicated question. It did not matter at all to the Bolsheviks that the girls had no "legal" claims.  They wanted nobody left alive who could be a rallying point, or figurehead, for the White Army, and they wanted no remains discovered to be revered relics. Please read Yurovsky's and Nikulin's  and Rodzinsky's testimonies. All agreed on this point most specifically.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #96 on: January 24, 2008, 11:08:42 AM »
This is not really a complicated question. It did not matter at all to the Bolsheviks that the girls had no "legal" claims.  They wanted nobody left alive who could be a rallying point, or figurehead, for the White Army, and they wanted no remains discovered to be revered relics. Please read Yurovsky's and Nikulin's  and Rodzinsky's testimonies. All agreed on this point most specifically.

Yes, exactly, I agree with this. And they were easy enough to kill because they were right there. I was responding to a post where someone asked would the children have been hunted down if they were not at Ekaterinburg but abroad away from their parents, and IMO they probably would not have bothered to hunt down the girls or even Alexei abroad, even if they wanted to eliminate them, because - the girls at least- would not have made that much of a difference as far as the Russian throne goes. They would have killed all Romanovs who were around in Russia (and they did) in order to prevent a rallying point, but they didn't bother to hunt down those who had escaped. 

Offline dmitri

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #97 on: January 24, 2008, 07:34:11 PM »
Do you honestly believe if anybody had been interested in a figurehead that they would have cared at all about the laws instituted by Paul I? I very much doubt they would have cared. A living Tsarina would have been a rallying point if this had been seen as useful for the Whites. Political expediency would have far outweighed legal formality.

Offline pandora

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #98 on: February 03, 2008, 09:31:45 AM »
I agree, Dmitri. What better rallying point than the daughters of the Tsar? They would have represented the closest link to the Nicholas, creating a bond and point of ultimate concern for the hopes of the people who wanted his legacy to live on.

Alixz

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #99 on: February 03, 2008, 06:50:19 PM »
Not so much his "legacy" as he really had none.  Some still stood by the monarchy and did not want to see the country give up that type of rule.

They may not have wanted to revive the autocracy, but a constitutional monarchy with either Michael or Alexei would have been OK.

I stand by what I said before, they did because they could.  I don't think it is any more complicated than that.

Offline dmitri

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #100 on: February 03, 2008, 07:35:39 PM »
The Romanovs were murdered as a sign that there would be no going back. It's as simple as that.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #101 on: February 04, 2008, 03:03:21 PM »
The Romanovs were murdered as a sign that there would be no going back. It's as simple as that.

Actually, it wasn't all that simple.

Rob is correct that the statements of the assassins clearly indicate that they did not want to leave any survivors. But, this is far more indicative of the short term objective of executing political prisoners prior to abandoning a city under seige than some kind of pathological hatred of the former ruling family - which is a common military tactic.

No one knew in July 1918 that the Bolsheviks would prevail in the Civil War much less survive to rule the Russian Empire another 70 some years. The Ural Regional Soviet was panicked and realized that they would face execution by the Whites if captured regardless of what they did with the "formers" - kill them or no.

There were probably those in the URS and on the execution squad - Yermakov comes to mind - who did carry the type of pathological hatred toward the family that is necessary for murder. But, this is as I said not a simple matter that can be reduced to a few words - no matter how well that would play with some groups. To be sure, killing the family - a short term military tactic - did long term damage to the prestige of the Bolshevik Party.

Offline Belochka

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #102 on: February 04, 2008, 05:10:43 PM »
... To be sure, killing the family - a short term military tactic - did long term damage to the prestige of the Bolshevik Party.

It is wrong to believe that the bolshevik party held any form of "prestige". They were not held in high esteem nor were they considered honorable at an international level.


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Offline Belochka

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #103 on: February 04, 2008, 05:17:44 PM »
The Romanovs were murdered as a sign that there would be no going back. It's as simple as that.

Actually, it wasn't all that simple.

Well actually it was that simple Ms Davidson. Dmitri was correct. Any other contributing factors were secondary.

To be sure, killing the family - a short term military tactic ...

The murder of the IF could only be described a political one.


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Offline Belochka

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Re: why did the kill the children?
« Reply #104 on: February 04, 2008, 06:21:34 PM »

To be sure, killing the family - a short term military tactic ...

The murder of the IF could only be described a political one.

I should further add that the "tactic" was for the long term.


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