Author Topic: Princes Baryatinsky  (Read 58307 times)

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Offline Matthew Wilde

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Re: Princes Baryatinsky
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2012, 01:08:25 PM »
I wonder if anyone can clarify the Schouvaloff link for me.  I note the above comment that Elizaveta Schouvaloff nee Baryatinsky was childless, but I had thought she married Count Paul Schouvaloff, and had a daughter Alexandra.  This Alexandra Schouvaloff married Prince Wiasemsky and then (as a widow) Count Alexander Fersen.  The 1920 London marriage certificate for the second marriage gives the fathers as Count Nicholas Fersen and Count Paul Schouvaloff (deceased).  I wonder if I am muddling my Count Schouvaloffs.  (I should also be interested to know more about the marriage witnesses: Lucy Beatrice King and Dorothy Cursons.)  Thank you.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Princes Baryatinsky
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2012, 01:46:52 PM »
I wonder if anyone can clarify the Schouvaloff link for me.  I note the above comment that Elizaveta Schouvaloff nee Baryatinsky was childless, but I had thought she married Count Paul Schouvaloff, and had a daughter Alexandra.  This Alexandra Schouvaloff married Prince Wiasemsky and then (as a widow) Count Alexander Fersen.  The 1920 London marriage certificate for the second marriage gives the fathers as Count Nicholas Fersen and Count Paul Schouvaloff (deceased).  I wonder if I am muddling my Count Schouvaloffs.  (I should also be interested to know more about the marriage witnesses: Lucy Beatrice King and Dorothy Cursons.)  Thank you.


Yes, you mixed up the 2 Schuvalov. Alexandra was a daughter of Count Pavel Pavlovitch, former ADC of GD Sergei Alexandrovitch and governor of Moscow in the 1905. The same 1905 year Pavel was murdered by anarchists. His wife was Alexandra Illarionovna Vorontzova-Dashkova.

Offline Matthew Wilde

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Re: Princes Baryatinsky
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2012, 01:07:58 PM »
Thank you very much.  I don't suppose you know whether the Countess Alexandra Fersen (nee Schouvaloff) had daughters called Sophia and Maria?  (I ask because an ancestor left those three countesses an annuity in her will, and I'm trying to work out exactly who they were.)

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Princes Baryatinsky
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2012, 12:52:14 AM »
Thank you very much.  I don't suppose you know whether the Countess Alexandra Fersen (nee Schouvaloff) had daughters called Sophia and Maria?  (I ask because an ancestor left those three countesses an annuity in her will, and I'm trying to work out exactly who they were.)

Alexandra did have 2 daughters by Fersen - Sophia and Maria.

Offline ashdean

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Re: Princes Baryatinsky
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2012, 08:23:54 AM »
I wonder if anyone can clarify the Schouvaloff link for me.  I note the above comment that Elizaveta Schouvaloff nee Baryatinsky was childless, but I had thought she married Count Paul Schouvaloff, and had a daughter Alexandra.  This Alexandra Schouvaloff married Prince Wiasemsky and then (as a widow) Count Alexander Fersen.  The 1920 London marriage certificate for the second marriage gives the fathers as Count Nicholas Fersen and Count Paul Schouvaloff (deceased).  I wonder if I am muddling my Count Schouvaloffs.  (I should also be interested to know more about the marriage witnesses: Lucy Beatrice King and Dorothy Cursons.)  Thank you.

There will be more information on Countess Alexandra in the genelogical books by Jacques Ferrand....especially the one on the Counts of the Empire.
I do not have a copy but if memory serves me right Alexandra may have died in New York city circa 1968.
Count Alexander was one of the 2 sons of Count Nicholas Fersen (who died in Rome in 1920) and his wife nee Princess Olga Doulgoruky.The couple probably were in the Crimea together and evacuated by the british and french ships in April 1919. Countess Alexandra may have been with her mother and sisters who were housed at Alupka the famed estate of her maternal grandmother Countess "Lily" Vorontsov Dashkov (nee Shouvalova) or with her Wiazemsky/Wassiltchikov in laws (her first husbands sister Lydia had married Prince Ilarion Wiazemsky) who left on the Princess Ena.
Her future husband may have left on the Grafton with his mother and sisters (his father and his maternal grandmother left on the Marlborough).His brother Count Paul Fersen certainly departed in April 1919 as the following month in Genoa he married another of the Marlborough passengers Baroness Marie de Staal.
Alexandra was one of three first cousins (all granddaughters of Count Ilarion and Countess Elisabeth Vorontsov-Dashkov)married to three Wiazemsky brothers. Only the youngest survived.

Offline Inok Nikolai

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Re: Princes Baryatinsky
« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2012, 05:21:52 PM »
I have just finished reading Pricness Maria Sergeievna Bariantsky's book My Russian Life and wanted to point out that this is not the Princess Marie Viktorovna Bariantinskaia who is the subject of this thread and was born in 1858.  Marie Viktorovna was the aunt of Marie Sergeievna's husband (Prince Anatoli Vladimirovitch Bariatinsky).  Marie Viktorovna was Alexandra's Lady in Wainting (according My Russian Life) for the first two years of Alexandra's reign (having been appointed, no doubt, by the Dowager Empress).  Marie Viktoria's brother Vladimir (Marie Sergeievna's father-in-Law) was the Grand Master of Marie Feodorovna's court.

I do believe the reference in Alexandra's diary could be to either Marie Bariatinsky assuming that "Olga [her sister-in-law] is refering to Alix's sister-in-law, Olga Nicholaevich.  Marie Sergeievna lived in Kiev and had a hospital there and it is possible she would have been familiar with Olga Nicholaevich.  However, if the reference is to Marie Bariatinky's sister-in-law Olga, then it is Marie Viktorovna to whom Alexandra is refering.  (The younger Princess Bariatinsky did have a sister-in-law named Olga, but not until 1916.)  It makes the most sense to me that Alexandra's reference is to the Younger Princess who talks in her book about traveling back and forth from Kiev to St. Petersburg in the spring of 1915.

Ironically, Marie Sergeievna's mother-in-law (Marie Viktorovna's sister-in-law) Princess Nadejda Bariatinsky was made Lady-in-waiting to both Empresses 11/14/1913 on the Dowager Empress's birthday.  I believe other members of the family were also ladies-in-waiting.

Marie Sergeievna's Mother-in-Law was killed by the Bolsheviks in 1920 along with her daughter Irene and Irene's husband, Sergei Ivanovitch Maltsov.  She does not mention in her book what happened to Princess Marie Viktorovna.

BobG


It's probably outdated by now, but I thought to share with you this partial family tree of the Bariatinskys which I drew up (in the wooly days before the Internet) to keep all the "Maria Bariatinskayas" straight while I was working on the Letters from Captivity.

Later I added the reference numbers assigned to the family members by Timothy Boettgers in his monumental three-volume work.




Since Timothy doesn't seem to be posting much on line anymore, I included here the reference to his book. I had access to it earlier, but, alas, we do not own a copy.

 La descendance d’Alexandre Andréïevitch, 1er prince Bariatinski : une généalogie biographique
Timothy F. Boettger, préface de Jacques Ferrand
Seattle, Washington, USA 1996

ISBN: 0965133001 (set)
096513301X (v. 1)
0965133028 (v. 2)
0965133036 (v. 3)


In her letter of April 6/19, 1918, to A. A. Vyrubova, Empress Alexandra Feodorovna writes of a Princess Bariatinskaya in the Crimea. However, in the published versions of this letter (contained in "Russkaya Letopis" and in Mr. Alferieff's book) there is an error.

They read the letter to say Больная (ill) Princess, when what the original (in the Beinecke Library at Yale) really has is: Большая (Big) Princess Bariatinskaya. It refers to Maria Vladimirovna, not Maria Victorovna.


BTW: Does anyone know why Elizabeth, wife of Vladimir Ivanovich (296) was known as “Princess Château”?

Inok Nikolai
инок Николай

Offline ashdean

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Re: Princes Baryatinsky
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2012, 12:23:22 PM »
I wonder if anyone can clarify the Schouvaloff link for me.  I note the above comment that Elizaveta Schouvaloff nee Baryatinsky was childless, but I had thought she married Count Paul Schouvaloff, and had a daughter Alexandra.  This Alexandra Schouvaloff married Prince Wiasemsky and then (as a widow) Count Alexander Fersen.  The 1920 London marriage certificate for the second marriage gives the fathers as Count Nicholas Fersen and Count Paul Schouvaloff (deceased).  I wonder if I am muddling my Count Schouvaloffs.  (I should also be interested to know more about the marriage witnesses: Lucy Beatrice King and Dorothy Cursons.)  Thank you.

There will be more information on Countess Alexandra in the genelogical books by Jacques Ferrand....especially the one on the Counts of the Empire.
I do not have a copy but if memory serves me right Alexandra may have died in New York city circa 1968.
Count Alexander was one of the 2 sons of Count Nicholas Fersen (who died in Rome in 1920) and his wife nee Princess Olga Doulgoruky.The couple probably were in the Crimea together and evacuated by the british and french ships in April 1919. Countess Alexandra may have been with her mother and sisters who were housed at Alupka the famed estate of her maternal grandmother Countess "Lily" Vorontsov Dashkov (nee Shouvalova) or with her Wiazemsky/Wassiltchikov in laws (her first husbands sister Lydia had married Prince Ilarion Wiazemsky) who left on the Princess Ena.
Her future husband may have left on the Grafton with his mother and sisters (his father and his maternal grandmother left on the Marlborough).His brother Count Paul Fersen certainly departed in April 1919 as the following month in Genoa he married another of the Marlborough passengers Baroness Marie de Staal.
Alexandra was one of three first cousins (all granddaughters of Count Ilarion and Countess Elisabeth Vorontsov-Dashkov)married to three Wiazemsky brothers. Only the youngest survived.
Count Nicholas Fersen died in Rome on 3/11/1921.His wife Sophia Alexandrovna nee Princess Doulgoruky died in Rome on 3/11/1957 having outlived both their sons and their elder daughter.

Offline bednayaliza

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Re: Princes Baryatinsky
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2012, 03:47:47 PM »
  Marie Ivanovna Baryatinsky

Offline bednayaliza

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Re: Princes Baryatinsky
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2012, 03:50:40 PM »


Marie Ivanovna Baryatinsky (1818-1843) a close friend of  Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna, by Christina Robertson

Offline burlion

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Re: Princes Baryatinsky and Shouvalov
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2014, 04:29:43 AM »
Is somebody can confirm me it's a portrait of the Shouvalov Family ?

Some sources called this painting "Miss Battany (Batthyany ?)" another source said it was a portrait of Sofia Chouvalov  (Shouvalova) death in 1879.

This painting showing a lady in blue, by Franz Xaver Winterhalter. 1854. Saint - Blasien Kreismuseum, Deutschland. I TRY TO GIVE YOU A PHOTO : [][/img]file:///home/guerin5/Bureau/dameenbleu.jpg
file:///home/guerin5/Bureau/dameenbleu.jpg

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Princes Baryatinsky
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2014, 07:05:03 AM »
Sorry, we need a link to see an image.